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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #651
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Definitely. I think we often aren't even aware of our own wants and needs in real time, nor do we know for sure how pressing they are until we're either very depleted or resentful. I don't think we're very in touch with our own bodies and also because we don't identify with our feelings being "us", it is easy to try to minimize them or rationalize them or underestimate their size until we suddenly burst at the seems.
    I agree a lot with the stuff I'm not including in this quote, from the above post- I just want to add to this beginning that I think there's a somewhat odd balance between being aware of and being able to articulate an issue. For most people I reckon, but I think that odd balance is especially difficult for us. I think it's exceptionally difficult for INFJs to articulate certain things- we notice something, and we'll have a sense of how important that 'something' is- whilst being almost completely unable to describe it. "Wants and needs" is one of those things. We can feel it strongly without being able to articulate it.

    I think we can actually be pretty good at instinctively knowing where our needs are being met and knowing what we want- but there's a weird thing that happens when we're directly asked or expected to articulate it. Because for us, it's a kind of 'knowing' that couldn't be further from something that's easily put into words. At least for me, in the past, when I've tried articulating wants/needs on the fly (to explain to someone why I declined going to the movies, or going to dinner with a group of people, why I wanted or didn't want to do this or that, etc)- it has often been a matter of me coming up with the easiest answer that comes to mind, for the other person's sake. It's only after repeated experiences with someone that I'll discern whether it's a good idea to give the most accurate answer I can- depending on how they react, it becomes clear whether they are helpful to bounce reality off of in order to understand it/myself better, or whether I should give them the cordial 'short answer' without giving them much access to what's actually going on. And as I get older I've become aware the consequence of doing too much of the latter can actually make me lose touch with the wants/needs that are genuinely there. Discussing my wants/needs with someone who doesn't understand can actually make me lose touch with my wants/needs.

    This is kind of parallel to something you wrote- about how others' reactions can influence what I think about the answer I give- there's something about articulating wants/needs to someone who won't understand that actually pollutes the process and takes me further away from the truth. And all of this is actually such an instinctive process that I couldn't make a conscious decision to trust the latter with more access to my thinking process if I tried- that part of my mind just shuts down around people who clearly don't understand me. I don't even have access to it myself in their presence. But around those whom consistently prove useful- bouncing reality off of them results in me having a better understanding of my wants/needs, rather than feeling more confused about it- there's just a feeling of 'knowing' it's correct because I feel truly seen/understood.

    tl;dr: I agree that we can have a hard time seeing our wants/needs in real time- that consciously, such things often only feel 'accurate' in hindsight- but I think as we get older the hindsights we've had accumulate and manifest in a strong unconscious pull that we do feel in real time. We may not immediately understand it- but it's there, it's strong and it's in real time. Also, I've noticed confusion about that 'pull' is exacerbated by interacting with people who don't particularly understand where I'm coming from.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  2. #652
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Ah yes! You've described that really well! I can feel the basic reaction I have, but it takes awhile to sort it out and convey it, unless I have previous experience that can expedite the process. And depending on the person I'm talking to, it can become more straightforward and easy or more convoluted. I agree that with some people I just give them the short version without the deeper reasons because it works better for us both.
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  3. #653

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I agree a lot with the stuff I'm not including in this quote, from the above post- I just want to add to this beginning that I think there's a somewhat odd balance between being aware of and being able to articulate an issue. For most people I reckon, but I think that odd balance is especially difficult for us. I think it's exceptionally difficult for INFJs to articulate certain things- we notice something, and we'll have a sense of how important that 'something' is- whilst being almost completely unable to describe it. "Wants and needs" is one of those things. We can feel it strongly without being able to articulate it.

    I think we can actually be pretty good at instinctively knowing where our needs are being met and knowing what we want- but there's a weird thing that happens when we're directly asked or expected to articulate it. Because for us, it's a kind of 'knowing' that couldn't be further from something that's easily put into words. At least for me, in the past, when I've tried articulating wants/needs on the fly (to explain to someone why I declined going to the movies, or going to dinner with a group of people, why I wanted or didn't want to do this or that, etc)- it has often been a matter of me coming up with the easiest answer that comes to mind, for the other person's sake. It's only after repeated experiences with someone that I'll discern whether it's a good idea to give the most accurate answer I can- depending on how they react, it becomes clear whether they are helpful to bounce reality off of in order to understand it/myself better, or whether I should give them the cordial 'short answer' without giving them much access to what's actually going on. And as I get older I've become aware the consequence of doing too much of the latter can actually make me lose touch with the wants/needs that are genuinely there. Discussing my wants/needs with someone who doesn't understand can actually make me lose touch with my wants/needs.

    This is kind of parallel to something you wrote- about how others' reactions can influence what I think about the answer I give- there's something about articulating wants/needs to someone who won't understand that actually pollutes the process and takes me further away from the truth. And all of this is actually such an instinctive process that I couldn't make a conscious decision to trust the latter with more access to my thinking process if I tried- that part of my mind just shuts down around people who clearly don't understand me. I don't even have access to it myself in their presence. But around those whom consistently prove useful- bouncing reality off of them results in me having a better understanding of my wants/needs, rather than feeling more confused about it- there's just a feeling of 'knowing' it's correct because I feel truly seen/understood.


    tl;dr: I agree that we can have a hard time seeing our wants/needs in real time- that consciously, such things often only feel 'accurate' in hindsight- but I think as we get older the hindsights we've had accumulate and manifest in a strong unconscious pull that we do feel in real time. We may not immediately understand it- but it's there, it's strong and it's in real time. Also, I've noticed confusion about that 'pull' is exacerbated by interacting with people who don't particularly understand where I'm coming from.
    Bolding some bits for emphasis. This is why some people just get quietly dismissed and likely never know why. It's nothing personal. They're just clogging up precious thought-stream bandwidth and I won't be hampered with it.
    "There is no god; there is only us. Savage and fragile."
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  4. #654
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Ah yes! You've described that really well! I can feel the basic reaction I have, but it takes awhile to sort it out and convey it, unless I have previous experience that can expedite the process. And depending on the person I'm talking to, it can become more straightforward and easy or more convoluted. I agree that with some people I just give them the short version without the deeper reasons because it works better for us both.
    Lmao...i comletely understand "it works better for both of us"
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  5. #655
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Yep. When I was going out with the estj, it took a long time for me to realize that.

  6. #656
    santa's elf Array theforsaken's Avatar
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    That horrendous feeling of opening yourself up to another soul and then being rejected on the account that you are just way too strange to be understood.
    And then shutting yourself down emotionally to protect yourself, thus naturally pushing other people away from you, thus feeling even more alienated than you were at the beginning.
    A never ending cycle.

    #yaaaaassss
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  7. #657
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    What are some techniques that have helped you when you feel overburdened with details?

    I think we INJs seem to see details and quotidian tasks as big deals where perhaps an ISTJ or an ESTJ would see the same things as simple.

    And we can procrastinate because of how intimidated we feel by "those pesky little things".

    Not sure how many INFJs and INTJs would relate to this, though.

  8. #658
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    What do you do when you realize you're caught in your head, stuck in unhealthy thought patterns, when you see the negative downward spiral coming but can't seem to stop yourself from going that way because you haven't got enough strength to consciously make your thoughts take another direction?

    it's so INFJ of me that my solution is try to understand and make sense of this, but it'm looking for more practical techniques. I've seen suggestions like to focus on Se, by athletics or crafting but none of that has ever really made my mind shut up, even when I completely spent.

  9. #659
    You have a choice! Array 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    What do you do when you realize you're caught in your head, stuck in unhealthy thought patterns, when you see the negative downward spiral coming but can't seem to stop yourself from going that way because you haven't got enough strength to consciously make your thoughts take another direction?

    it's so INFJ of me that my solution is try to understand and make sense of this, but it'm looking for more practical techniques. I've seen suggestions like to focus on Se, by athletics or crafting but none of that has ever really made my mind shut up, even when I completely spent.
    A perspective shift.

    I know what you're describing and that happens to me a lot. Usually there isn't really a way to "think your way out of it". You can process and process and seem to get nowhere. What works is just to 'aha!' your way out, but that can't be forced either. So, I tend to just do other things for a while -- get in new data, find new emotions, get engaged by different things, and hope for that shift to happen.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Usually there isn't really a way to "think your way out of it". You can process and process and seem to get nowhere.
    if that ain't the truth *sigh* Sometimes I just wish I could switch the Ni-Ti loop off. what's worked so far is mindless escapism entertainment but obviously that isn't a long-term or sustainable shift. thanks for your advice, I'm going to try to put myself out there as best I can.

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