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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #561
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Don't know where else to drop this question -

    Do people easily disappoint you?

    Especially in relationships.
    I get disappointed when they don't like me as much as I like them in friendships and past crushes. I can also be disappointed if the friendship is superficial and just for a diversion, but not intended to make a positive impact on either life.

    I am disappointed in one failed friendship with a woman here in town who plays my same instrument. I *really* liked her a lot, but she was always really distant. At first she seemed invested in getting to know me, but then she became really distant and it would take months of occasional email communication to get together for coffee. She would also ignore me at work meetings and be friendly to others which hurt my feelings. I finally just decided that she must be disappointed or disinterested in knowing me and have given up. She would throw out a little double message and I think she may have played some social games. I still like her, but this friendship thing is not worth the effort and confusion and so that disappoints me.
    The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas. H.G. WELLS
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN

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  2. #562
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    @Riva (how's that????)

    Once I am in a committed relationship or have been close friends with someone for a long time, even when those deep disappointments start occurring (enough to eclipse the happy moments in the relationship), I'm still very reluctant to get out. If someone has had a history of being trustworthy with me and then new information comes to light, it takes awhile for me to reconcile that in my head and understand that continuing on is futile. I don't really easily go for someone (because I usually start from a position of assuming incompatibilities until proven otherwise), so when I do, it takes a long time for me to truly give up on them. That is not always a good thing.

    I think Z Buck and I are actually pretty much on the same page in what we were saying. I don't think it's incompatible.

  3. #563
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I'm going to be horrendously lazy and somewhat redundant here and just say that I deeply agree with (and almost could have written) most of what @fidelia and @Z Buck McFate have said about various types of relationships
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  4. #564
    Senior Member Array the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I think the reason I need to be friends with someone for a while before getting in a relationship is precisely because I need to make sure ideals/goals are aligned enough for that not to easily happen. I do get disappointed relatively easy- though it’s really more about being disappointed to find they have different priorities than actually being disappointment in them. But that’s why I need to know someone well first- I loathe the idea of imposing my own priorities on another person, I need to make sure they already have similar values.

    Even using the heavy screening process though, both relationships I’ve been in as an adult have resulted in me eventually distancing myself as a result of needing to maintain my own ideals while not wanting to impose them. That distancing ruined one for sure, and played a big role in the other. So yeah, it is a problem.

    I'm totally going to die alone. THANKS FOR THE REMINDER, RIVA.

    / w4
    i liken this to trust issues and feel like you've hit the nail on the head in attributing this particular type of trust issue to e4. e4 doms, however, often have a bit deeper creative impulse, so they get tied up by their own defenses in a different way, through more experimentation. e4s and e5s are experts at disconnection, emotional and mental. we demand the right to our own understanding but can have trouble negotiating, engaging in a process of collaborative reasoning, which requires us to stay much more grounded in particular situations and requires us to find ways of relating to them across the translation gap from our weird fortress of solitude.

    it's such a challenging process to figure out when you have to give in and just go get a place out in the suburbs. to let go of the responsibility to identify with all negative social difference and the way social differences are attributed to status, prestige, and value aesthetically and otherwise in the construction of justice. because it focuses on why social expectations (a part of all social relations) are inherently damaging.

  5. #565
    Tenured roisterer Array SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Fascinating thread. Interestingly, the INFJs whom I know seem to have similar thinking habits, however, their personalities differ from each other in many important ways. This makes me guess that only some of the INFJs experience most of the aforementioned issues, it seems to be rather difficult to determine what people of each type have in common. Perhaps that's why I still don't know my type after I've read a couple of books on typology.

  6. #566
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemoon123123 View Post
    Fascinating thread. Interestingly, the INFJs whom I know seem to have similar thinking habits, however, their personalities differ from each other in many important ways. This makes me guess that only some of the INFJs experience most of the aforementioned issues, it seems to be rather difficult to determine what people of each type have in common. Perhaps that's why I still don't know my type after I've read a couple of books on typology.
    The bolded above is exactly what MBTI typology means. It's "thinking habits", not "personality" per se. Thinking habits influence overall personality, but don't dominate it. I think it's more useful to know "thinking habits" than "personality", anyway: if I know how other people think, I know better how to communicate with them.

    I kind of look at individual personalities and typology (any typology, not just MBTI) as a Venn diagram. Your "type" is what most closely matches you, and you are very clearly that type and no other (once you get beneath the superficial descriptions), and you mostly overlap (in a Venn diagram kind of way) with other people of that type in the context of matters that pertain to type.

    It's the "in the context of ... type" bit that makes it fuzzy, but there is, surprisingly, usefulness in the fuzziness, because people really are that complicated, and typology is an attempt to simplify and clarify. It necessarily does so by paying attention to particular factors and ignoring others. As a good example, INTPs and INTJs are typically nerds who are into science or math and end up in very technical careers, but, clearly, there's no way that EVERY INTx is going to be technically oriented. I personally know INTJs and INTPs who aren't technically inclined at all, but they are clearly INTJ-ish or INTP-ish in their approach to their non-technical matters, with the INTJs quickly dismissing irrelevant data and getting to the core of a problem and INTPs losing track of time and practicalities as they investigate and probe their current topic of interest.

    What's really interesting, at least in terms of perusing the various typology forums, is that seeing other types discuss/argue their ideas with each other really makes it clear which type is which (there are always outliers and mistyped people, but the pattern is still visible). In my case, I couldn't tell, at first, whether I was INTJ or INTP, solely based on the descriptions (mostly because a lot of my behavior/approach is "P"-like). When I started reading debates between self-typed INTJs and INTPs on various forums, I usually found the INTJ posts more like something I would write (regardless of whether I agreed with the specific opinion) than the INTP posts. It eventually became clear to me that I don't think anything like an INTP. I could go in to elaborate detail as to why and how (I've spent years studying this), but even now it's difficult to verbalize the difference: it's something that you need to see in action, there really aren't words for the concepts behind it ... except, of course, the words provided by the typology itself. And, as you initially pointed out, it all boils down to "thinking habits". INTP thinking habits differ from mine, quite significantly.

    In terms of identifying your own type, I'd say try the same thing, spend time at the type specific forums (INTJ and INTP since you self-type as INTx), and see if you can figure out which type tends to jibe more with "how you think".
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #567
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Does anyone else have this -- I have steady evidence of precognition in my life. And I steadily hear people making snotty remarks about people who believe they have precognition. How do I reconcile this?
    Example: at the doctor's office, I'm told my prescription will be called in. I *know* I'm not going to be picking it up, for some reason. I see myself picking it up over the weekend (which is not what I want).
    I get home and there's a message from the doctor's office. They want me to verify the pharmacy phone number. The next day, I call and verify the pharmacy phone number. I am told I'll be able to pick up my prescription that evening. I *know* this is not going to happen. And I get the thought "the pharmacy doesn't have that medication in stock and they will have to order it."
    I get to work and there's a call from the pharmacy telling me they don't have the medication in stock and they will have to order it.
    Since the pharmacy will be closed by the time I get off work, I will indeed be picking up my prescription over the weekend.
    This happens constantly. I'm not making it up.
    Why do people feel a need to ridicule "magic Ni"? I can't explain it either and I almost wish I didn't have it, but it is my experience of life.

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Does anyone else have this -- I have steady evidence of precognition in my life. And I steadily hear people making snotty remarks about people who believe they have precognition. How do I reconcile this?
    Example: at the doctor's office, I'm told my prescription will be called in. I *know* I'm not going to be picking it up, for some reason. I see myself picking it up over the weekend (which is not what I want).
    I get home and there's a message from the doctor's office. They want me to verify the pharmacy phone number. The next day, I call and verify the pharmacy phone number. I am told I'll be able to pick up my prescription that evening. I *know* this is not going to happen. And I get the thought "the pharmacy doesn't have that medication in stock and they will have to order it."
    I get to work and there's a call from the pharmacy telling me they don't have the medication in stock and they will have to order it.
    Since the pharmacy will be closed by the time I get off work, I will indeed be picking up my prescription over the weekend.
    This happens constantly. I'm not making it up.
    Why do people feel a need to ridicule "magic Ni"? I can't explain it either and I almost wish I didn't have it, but it is my experience of life.
    I would assume because it's not actually magic and that there is no doubt a rational explanation based in science and empiricism which is just out of reach at the moment. Plus one would ask on the amount of times the precognition fails to materialise or said users convince themselves that events did play out as the prediction determined by considering and making a pattern out of only some of the data with a perspective that misconstrues or completely overlooks some of the rest of the data to support said pattern. Most people would sooner or later get a prediction correct, you could think up a hundred possibilities and one by law of averages would be partially true. But someone who predicts an event correct but makes incorrect predictions on 50 other events is not a fortune teller, they are just deluding themselves through selection bias.

  9. #569
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Thanks for responding, @Standuble.
    It's not that I'm making predictions -- I'm not doing anything. It's more like I get messages. If I get one, it's accurate. I don't get them about most things, but I get them often enough, about little daily stuff like this, that I can actually use it. For example, I did not go to the pharmacy near my house before I came home from the doctor, because I knew there would be no prescription, even though the doctor's office told me they were going to call it in.
    Anyway -- not to make this thread about me. I just bring it up because it's a common issue for this INFJ. People don't believe me or try to logic me out of things. It can occasionally cause problems in relationships, where I appear to be irrationally stubborn and insist that I know what I know.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Thanks for responding, @Standuble.
    It's not that I'm making predictions -- I'm not doing anything. It's more like I get messages. If I get one, it's accurate. I don't get them about most things, but I get them often enough, about little daily stuff like this, that I can actually use it. For example, I did not go to the pharmacy near my house before I came home from the doctor, because I knew there would be no prescription, even though the doctor's office told me they were going to call it in.
    Anyway -- not to make this thread about me. I just bring it up because it's a common issue for this INFJ. People don't believe me or try to logic me out of things. It can occasionally cause problems in relationships, where I appear to be irrationally stubborn and insist that I know what I know.
    Thank you for your response Tilty. Btw, I was aware its not a case of making predictions - that would be a judging function not a perceiving function at work. Also I'm not dismissing the possibility of pre-cognition being a real phenomena (even though I'm admittedly a sceptic) more the idea that its magical or mystical in any way, with all clues behind its occurrence lying in observable, empirical data in the present. I myself am not alien to the phenomena either though the Ne likes to throw out lots of possible outcomes to make things more interesting.

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