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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #511

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    I pretty much get everything in the OP in some way or another.

    13) Tendancy to be poor with paperwork, locating items quickly under pressure - I've largely solved this by having a big lanyard for my keys, carrying a decent sized purse and having a file folder that things go into immediately.
    I totally get this, the more my emotions flare up, the harder I find it to sense things; meaning that I can't find things when I'm stressing out and sometimes I don't listen to people after they've triggered a panic in me, like they are competing with an internal monologue.

  2. #512
    Peaced Array Quay's Avatar
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    I liked the link too.

    I JUST went through something similar earlier today.

    My mom has stage 4 cancer and I was visiting her in the hospital today. I became overwhelmed at one point and left the room because I could feel the tears coming. My aunt follows me and says, "Stop crying! The worst part is over." I was totally pissed and 30 minutes later left for home.

    I felt totally invalidated. That is MY MOTHER, with a colostomy bag, frail and barely able to stand. It hurts to see her that way, and no, the worst is not over. How the fuck would she know anyway? Even the doctors seem uncertain.

    I totally wanted to cut into my aunt, but my family is just like this, expecting me to be emotionless and stone-faced. It's only in recent times that I've learned to be okay with my anger and sadness, and that's due to therapy and being away from their asses for a few years.

    Sorry for the vent. I'm glad I clicked on this thread.

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    1)Delayed processing time- This irritates my husband (an INTP) excessively, he wants a very concrete yes/no answer to everything, and it can take me several minutes of pondering to come to the conclusion that I don't have enough information to have an opinion.

    2 & 3) For me, this seems to tie mostly into my tendency to become very rigid once I've come to a conclusion about something. When something doesn't mesh with that mental image/world view it creates dissonance, and it's very hard for me to alter my opinions once they are set.

    4 & 10) Dislike of emotional surprises/need to be in control of emotions)- Back in my elementary school days (as the quiet dreamy girl who sat to the side and spent most of her time in her own head) I was a target for school bullies, and I learned that people laugh at you when you cry and they just get meaner if you show them that they can make you mad. As an adult, I cognitively know that this isn't true, but old lessons are hard to unlearn.

    5) Hold those close to them to a higher degree of accountability- I think that it is generally so difficult for me to develop a real genuine trusting relationship with someone, that any perceived betrayal on the part of the other person shakes not only my trust in that relationship but makes me question all of my other relationships, as well.

    6) Easily embarrassed and quite private- I hate being the center of attention, nuff said

    7a) Long gaps in correspondance- For me, I spend a lot of time bouncing around ideas in my head, and I have mental representatives of the important people in my life in there. It's not uncommon for me to have chats with my mental representative of Joe Shmoe about this topic or that topic daily, and to lose contact with the Joe Shmoe who lives in the real world because I haven't actually reached out to talk to them for months.

    7b) Putting off a job that matters a lot- I try very hard to not get wrapped up in my perfectionism, as nothing I do is ever really done...but, yes, the more important a job is to me the harder it is to get going on it.

    8) Not creating clear enough boundaries for people around them- On of the hardest things for me growing up was in the fact that I seem to pick up on and experience other people's emotions, and the confusion associated with not being clear on where I start and the other person stops.

    9) Find it difficult to assess when is the time to make a Big Deal out of something- I have a fuse that's atleast 20 miles long, but it's attached to an atom bomb. I have been actively and conciously trying to vent my anger/frustration rather than bottling it up, this is difficult due to the 4/10 issue.

    11) Get less receptive to advice if the person hasn't taken enough time to understand the situation- I do this, I think this is tied into the issues associated with 1, and the need to make a concious effort to understand that other people don't think the same way that I do.

    17) Over-indulgent when under stress- I have become very concious that I do this, and have started to make a habit of catching myself.

    19) Stubborn - I tend to need a lot of convincing with a new idea before I will adopt it, because it involves changing the whole structure over again...my sentiments exactly.

    20) Promising more than I can actually deliver- I really struggle with this.

  4. #514
    Paragon Gone Wrong Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    These are problems I have experienced in INFJs I know in person. I'm not saying this is what all INFJs are like or that these points even sum up these individuals (who DO have good qualities), but I see these as "common issues" in INFJs.

    Anyone want to cop to some of these (even if to lesser degree), explain how you get over these negative tendencies, etc?

    I've included some points from a Ni description which seem to explain the "root" of some of these issues.

    1. General paranoia. Example: everyone is out to get them for no good reason. All of their problems are due to these people who are out to get them, and there is absolutely nothing they have done to spur these people, of course. In reality, these people may not like them, but they are ignoring the INFJ, not out to get them; OR the INFJ has given them a reason to react that way.

    "Have little awareness of the facts of the external world... the world of facts are far removed for them, and they try to confine their contact with these things to the aspects which they can regulate as they like. Everything else appears to them as suspicious, as something they must defend themselves against."

    "The influence of reason is inconsistent & self-centered....and the knowledge behind their thoughts is often incomplete.....they may force a line of reasoning that ends up being unclear and contradictory."


    2. Selfishness & in denial about it. Playing tyrant/victim, whichever suits them to get their way. They pat themselves on the back for being so "giving", but they only give in ways that suits them (ie. benefits them also in some way), not according to what people truly need & are even asking for.

    " Egotism, and a desire to dominate, may cause them to use these requirements of an ideal relationship to benefit their own agenda."

    3. They will not take personal responsibility* for any problem in their life or any negative effect they have on others; they are always blaming something outside themselves.

    4. General Delusion*. They will see nothing but what they want to see, which is a majorly distorted perspective completely at odds with the reality of the world. See quote for #1.

    5. They are not simply sensitive to criticism; they refuse to acknowledge they have flaws at all or that they have any blame in a situation, period. Yet, they criticize others heavily & have high expectations for them that they could never meet themselves.

    "They may make demands on others without being prepared to meet the same demands themselves."

    6. They make promises or state intentions they either cannot keep or don't intend to keep, mainly to get others to do what they want. When they are called on these promises, they get mad at people for being "demanding"* & accuse them of not being supportive of them by expecting too much. I see this as a form of manipulation, even if not intentional.

    "Seek to regulate everything according to their own ideas...
    Apt to be tyrants within their own small circle...
    Rather than adapt themselves to others, they will limit their contact with those who do not agree with them..."


    7. INSANE double standards. For example, only the INFJ is allowed to be hurt; if they hurt you & you communicate this, then they act hurt that you'd dare imply they are even capable of hurting someone (see inability to accept criticism, even if that means they will invalidate others' feelings & trample their needs). Other kinds of double standards they flex include holding other people to standards they themselves fail to meet & likely never will. See quote for #5.

    * Elaboration: They respond to emotional pain with a perspective shift which eases that pain by removing personal responsibility. Instead of literally running away (as a Pe type would; seeking a new external environment for better possibilities), they mentally distance themselves from something, creating a new mental possibility (or viewpoint) that has nothing to do with reality, but soothes their feelings. This new, distorted perspective explains away any blame they might have to accept otherwise. Now, they don't have to change what they do either; instead, they insist others change for them, & they either cut these people off or manipulate them to if they won't adhere to the INFJ's wishes.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

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  5. #515
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Anyone want to cop to some of these (even if to lesser degree), explain how you get over these negative tendencies, etc?

    I've included some points from a Ni description which seem to explain the "root" of some of these issues.
    I'm not an INFJ, but my Mom was INFJ, I'm generally able to get along with INFJs, and I'm INTJ, so I have the Ni bit down pat and understand how it gets abused. So I'll put in my opinion.

    1. General paranoia.
    Yes, but it isn't "everyone is out to get them." It's more like if they get burned once, they put up major walls to prevent getting burned again, or if that's impossible, they gloomily predict getting burned again. AND they're often correct about it. One INFJ friend of mine was fairly good at predicting when he'd get let go from a job. Now, he'd predict it more often than would happen, but he was still uncannily accurate.

    2. Selfishness & in denial about it. Playing tyrant/victim, whichever suits them to get their way. They pat themselves on the back for being so "giving", but they only give in ways that suits them (ie. benefits them also in some way), not according to what people truly need & are even asking for.
    Yes and no. The selfishness aspect is Ni. Ni dominant means we're in our heads all the time. That makes us fairly oblivious to our selfish tendencies, because we're mostly "selfish" because we aren't paying attention to that sort of thing. Even auxiliary Fe doesn't always ameliorate this all the time (for the same reason that aux Te doesn't always make INTJs logical). And for the same reason that not all INTJs are super-logical as they pretend to be, not all INFJs are truly emotionally aware as they pretend to be. Or rather, INTJs are super-logical about particular things, not everything, and INFJs are exceptionally emotionally aware about particular things, not everything.

    3. They will not take personal responsibility* for any problem in their life or any negative effect they have on others; they are always blaming something outside themselves.
    More Ni. The funny thing is that they'll believe they're being responsible. The problem is that their inner perspective is just enough different from others' that it skews what is reasonable vs unreasonable.

    4. General Delusion*. They will see nothing but what they want to see, which is a majorly distorted perspective completely at odds with the reality of the world. See quote for #1.
    Ni again. But the perspective is usually not that distorted, just distorted enough that it's hard to tell whether they're really seeing something with amazing insight, or they're just plain wrong. INTJs have the same problem, but have a slight advantage: INTJs, if they play their cards right, can actually point at physical reality and prove that they're right even if they can't explain why they're right.

    5. They are not simply sensitive to criticism; they refuse to acknowledge they have flaws at all or that they have any blame in a situation, period. Yet, they criticize others heavily & have high expectations for them that they could never meet themselves.
    This is pretty darn rare in the INFJs I know. I think this might be more a reaction of others to INFJ criticism. The criticism may or may not be justified, but especially when criticizing values, it is difficult not to appear to be hypocritical. INFJs generally do have high expectations for themselves, too, but they're just not vocalized.

    6. They make promises or state intentions they either cannot keep or don't intend to keep, mainly to get others to do what they want. When they are called on these promises, they get mad at people for being "demanding"* & accuse them of not being supportive of them by expecting too much. I see this as a form of manipulation, even if not intentional.
    This is pretty darn rare, too. As much as I adore NFPs, and get along with them better than NFJs, they are more likely to flake out on me in unpredictable ways than NFJs.

    7. INSANE double standards. For example, only the INFJ is allowed to be hurt; if they hurt you & you communicate this, then they act hurt that you'd dare imply they are even capable of hurting someone (see inability to accept criticism, even if that means they will invalidate others' feelings & trample their needs). Other kinds of double standards they flex include holding other people to standards they themselves fail to meet & likely never will. See quote for #5.
    I'm sensing some Fe/Fi conflict here. Usually a strong Fe-style response back is all it takes to resolve things. Recall that Te-style sounds very harsh to Fe/Ti ears and vice-versa.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  6. #516
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Lol - I wrote a big long response yesterday and then lost it. However, I would agree with umlauu that a lot of this is Ni-based. While I can see why it would look that way from an outsider perspective, some of these issues have to do with the basic perspective or assumptions we are starting from being different. That's not to say that there are no flaky, selfish or unreasonable INFJs out there. However, I think the Ni part of how we process information is a big clue to understanding our behaviour in better context.

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    Junior Member Array Mertonchavez's Avatar
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    I can definitely relate to 18 and 20!

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    14: That's also any other introvert's problem, which they may or may not have overcome.

    15: To relate, ISTPs often don't consider feelings into the equation, and could use a few feelers (although this doesn't seem like as much of a problem as INFJ's inferior Se and missing out on detail).

    I can definitely relate to 16, but in a different way. Worst case Te sends me into Ti-Ni mode.

    17: Inferior Se. Supposedly some ISTPs under stress will need an INFJ hug, an Fe cure

    18: I tend to have the same problems, thanks to the same Ti-Ni loopiness that INFJs have.
    Thinkist: not optimist nor pessimist. I am primarily competent in the enneagram.
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  9. #519
    Senior Member Array Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Oh man...I'd been doubting whether I've been truly INFJ for a while, but almost all of this seems to hit the nail right on the head for me. (You'll have to forgive my lack of eloquence in this post; I'm still kinda 'waking up', y'see. ^^;; )

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    1)Delayed processing time - INFJs often seem to be basing their responses to the person in question on the last interaction they had with them, more often than the current one. They prefer to have time to think things over, which is why it's not a great idea to try to push an INFJ into making a decision before they feel they have had enough time to mull everything that has been brought up.
    Hmm...this doesn't seem to ring as distinctly to me, but I do know of some instances where I'll be like "Oh man, I should've said that!" after an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    2) Need for resolution - What may look to some like being nitpicky or unforgiving or even holding onto the past often has more to do with their need to get everything put away in it's proper place before closing the chapter on it. Without doing so, it keeps coming up again and again.
    Oh my god, this. I often find myself dwelling on past wrongs in my childhood, such as being constantly put in the time-out chair, or the harrows of being put through occupational therapy, or etc. I'll often bring it up with discussion with my parents, and they'll become irritated with me because they think I'm trying to dredge up their guilt or something. ._. Which I'm not; I'm just trying to get it in a comfortable place in my head, and every time they react negatively to my desire to discuss it, it only makes things worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    3) Considering every hobby, person or idea expressed as an extension of themselves - INFJs tend to be very self-protective, and rarely bring something up unless they have already implemented it into their main framework of thought or affection. Therefore when any of these things are dismissed or mocked, they will feel it as a personal rejection, unlike someone who tends to verbalize new ideas out loud. Similarly, INFJs will sometimes be confused by someone who seemed committed to a thought or a plan, only to abandon it later.
    I've realized lately I feel better if I don't tell people about my plans or ideas; mainly because I'm afraid it's gonna be used against me if it turns out to not be the case. For example, last night I was walking outside and I heard all the leaves outside crinkling and popping. I thought...maybe they were toads hopping around? So I decided to go inside and grab a flashlight to see if that was a case. My mom asked me what I was doing, and I didn't want to tell her that I was "going to see if there were toads", because I didn't want to have to deal with explaining to her that they weren't toads if I found out otherwise. Instead, I kinda brushed her off; then when I came back, I told her what I had seen and what I had been doing AFTER the fact.

    Also, I tend to grow attached to movies and characters on a visceral level; it's kind of a matter of just seeing them in action, and then all of a sudden the character becomes incorporated into my mental archetype. It's not a matter of "Ooh, I like this character because they're strong and because they looked awesome when they beat up the villain!", but rather on a more "I keep thinking about this character...I wonder why?" kinda level. If someone bashes that movie (or the character), I will often become VERY argumentative. Like, for instance, someone was about to talk about the alternate ending of Sucker Punch, and they were implicating that the character of Babydoll (whom I strongly relate to and have unintentionally come to use as an avatar) was much weaker than in the theatrical release. Instead of having a calm debate with them about it (perhaps because I was already in a foul mood), I instead kept yelling as loudly as was socially appropriate "We are NOT talking about this! We are NOT talking about this!" until they took a hint and shut up about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    4) Dislike of emotional surprises - this leads INFJs to sometimes inconvenience others in their effort to know what to expect. I'm fine with a change of plans, but find it harder to quickly adjust to someone's sudden annoyance, to a change in something I had really been hoping for/counting on etc. Makes me more likely to try to be the one to take on any inconvenience because that is more predictable. I also tend to need to watch a situation for awhile (either social or skillwise) before I am comfortable jumping in. I think with maturity we can become less focussed on their own reactions and feelings and also realize that someone else being upset is not the very worst that can happen. Sometimes avoiding that happening actually creates more conflict.
    Yeah, I *hate* it when I don't realize I've stepped on someone's toes. It led me to consciously avoid stepping on people's toes as much as possible, to the point where I ended up becoming NEUROTIC about it. However...nowadays I realized it just isn't worth it, and that my sanity is worth more than avoiding a few toe-stompings. (Hence if I feel REALLY strongly about something, I will be more honest and demanding about it, rather than going about it in a way that puts me perpetually at the other person's mercy.)

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    5) Hold those close to them to a higher degree of accountability than those that are less important to them - This may seem judgemental and unfair, but because those close to them are an extension of their own self, integrity is paramount to them and they choose to invest heavily in a few close relationships, they expect more of those people than they do of casual acquaintance friends. When they feel you are worth risking conflict with and you start hearing the negatives about yourself as well as the positives, you're in!
    I dunno about this one...all I can say is that I get worried if I don't hear my closest people lodge the occasional complaint about me. At the same time, I know they're gonna think I'm a complete weirdo if I ask them "Is there anything you'd like for me to change about my behavior?" ._. But yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    6) Easily embarrassed and quite private - May mean that they take awhile before talking about something that is painful to them. This doesn't mean they don't care about the support you could give them. It's just that they need to get it thought out in a framework and untangled before they are ready to be more open. I tend to talk about it more after I think I'm going to be alright.
    Eh...this might not be the case for me. Sometimes I'll wait to talk about something if I'm concerned about being judged for it, because people will often want to project their own advice onto me (even when I'm not asking for their own advice, but rather for their APPROVAL on my desired course of action, even if I haven't outright indicated that's what I've been looking for).

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    7) Long gaps in correspondance or putting off a job that matters a lot - This seems to be linked to wanting to do an excellent job of it and feeling overwhelmed by the amount of time or effort or organization required. The longer it is put off, the worse we feel. As a result, it is usually my most valued friends that I correspond with least. Usually I try to overcome this by phoning them, catching up on the bulk of it, and then writing the rest.
    HOLY CRAP THIS IS ME. I'll tend to procrastinate if I don't feel perfectly "up for the task". This can be problematic when it comes to getting school assignments done...or doing favors for other people. Someone asked me to do a drawing for them as a favor over a week ago, and despite the minimal effort I could get away with putting into it, I still find myself going "Eh...it'll look half-a$$ed if I try to do it right now." and then putting it off and just making myself feel guilty whenever that person nags me to do it. ._.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    8) Not creating clear enough boundaries for people around them - there's a tendancy to respond to those who are most actively demanding attention, especially when younger. Also the need to be sure that they've looked at everything from all angles, made a correct assessment of all possible motivations and exhausted what they can do to impact the situation before really drawing a hard and fast line. I think this improves with age.
    Yeah...I actually have had some significant conflict with a fellow INFJ over this. His behavior makes me feel that I'm being depended upon to keep him sane...but his conversations are so one-sided that I find myself DRAINED by them. I'd tried to be understanding, up to a point where he said something that sounded borderline possessive, at which point I suddenly snapped and almost shut him completely out of my life. We still talk...but I make sure to keep it blatantly clear that he can't depend on me as his sole source of support, and that I can't "solve his problems for him".

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    9) Find it difficult to assess when is the time to make a Big Deal out of something - Their reaction to something really depends on the other person's response. They may find it easy to forgive something or deal with it on their own if the person recognizes that they are making a concession. If the person trivializes or continues on with more of the same behaviour, it's the last straw (in a very big load of straws!) and the other examples of where they have seen the same behaviour will be brought up.
    See #8

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    10) Hate being not in control of their emotions, yet sometimes underestimate how strong those emotions are till they are swamped by them. - (Note, not a good time for Ts to talk about how over-sensitive and emotional they are, as they despise being that way and are already terribly embarrassed).
    Every time I go to a party, I always FREAK OUT simply because I'm worried about freaking out in the first place. xD; Vicious cycles are vicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    11) Get less receptive to advice if the other person tries to skip over the venting that they need to do in order to bleed off excess emotion or when they feel the person hasn't taken enough time to understand the situation. Often their solutions are gained primarily from discussion with someone, not from getting the answers from someone.
    Yeah, if I feel like a person is trying to "get my venting over with" and skip right to offering their advice, I'll start to hold a grudge against them... And yeah, I feel like my best solutions/ideas come from hearing myself consciously express my ideas rather than from the input of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    12) Sometimes have a hard time recognizing when they need to pull back or give less so that they can continue doing so cheerfully. This seems to be the case especially with Ts.
    Yeah. I can't seem to tell when I've put enough effort into something, often at the cost of my own mental sanity... ._.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    13) Tendancy to be poor with paperwork, locating items quickly under pressure - I've largely solved this by having a big lanyard for my keys, carrying a decent sized purse and having a file folder that things go into immediately.
    Yes. Me too. I like filling out certain kinds of forms because the process of informational analysis is kinda fun, but I hate having to try and figure out the organizational parameters...

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    14) Am a responder more than an initiator - as a result I've missed out on many good friendships. I've learned that people respond much more warmly when you go out on a limb and make the first move. I've been working to actively improve this.
    Yeah, I've had to learn this as well. It's like...I've learned it's better to make an overture to a friendship and risk them thinking you're too intense, rather than have them not notice you at all. Who knows? They might be waiting for you to make the first move!

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    15) Not good at paying attention to detail (in my environment, and in instructions) - This is why I try to stock a lot of sensors in my life. They are happy to fill in my gaps and give me reminders when needed. They also tend to think in terms of smaller practical details that must be attented to.
    I wish I were more attentive to my personal hygiene...I'm not a disgusting freak, but I often tend to come off as a bit frumpy, being lazy and just throwing on a hoodie and glasses, but I'll sometimes decide to go all-out and dress in my 'residual self-image' of wearing a black tanktop and cargo pants, and popping my contacts in.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    16) My intimidation by Te, and some oversensitivity leads me to sometimes not express my opinions when I should - working on this one. Thinking it out ahead of time helps.
    Uh...huh?? *shot*

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    17) Over-indulgent when under stress - eat bad food and buy make-up/magazines that I don't need - Am working to replace these responses with exercise, drinking water etc.
    Eh...I probably could eat more healthily than I do.

  10. #520
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    I can identify with some of this Ni+Ti behavior. It's helpful. Although the motivations and thoughts behind it are very different from my POV, it often expresses itself the same.
    ~I'm looking California, and feeling Minnesota.

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