Z - given, i am not very enneagram-skilled, but the INFP seems sp-ish (9?), what do you think he and vicky jo are?
Originally Posted by Forever Jung
Thread: Common INFJ issues
01-20-2011, 02:13 AM #461
01-20-2011, 06:03 AM #462
Don't know about the actual enneagram type, but the instinct variant seemed very sp/sx (least so) to me, yeah. And Vicki Jo seemed very so/sx (least sp). I can't remember exactly what gave me that impression, and I'm not willing to watch it again, but I think it was the way the guy was explaining that he doesn't like parties where he doesn't know anyone. His attitude towards interaction with others in general resonated more with me than Vicki Jo, and it just seemed more like instinct variant behavior to me- stuff that didn't necessarily fall under the distinction between INFJ and INFP. Though the stuff he said about always knowing how he feels about things seemed more INFP. I think. Like I said, I can't remember exactly what gave me the impressions I got.
01-20-2011, 10:46 AM #463
But overall, I've generally been cool with men after relationships ended. I really don't see a reason why I should be nasty afterwards.
01-20-2011, 11:35 PM #464
01-21-2011, 05:18 PM #465
01-23-2011, 04:11 AM #466
This is the first time I've seen a video of hers and it only confirms my opinions about her... Too touchy feely... and far too much drama. Just watching the INFP sitting next to her makes me feel uncomfortable for him.
Enneagram type might have something to do with the supposed differences between INFPs and INFJs... unless Vicky play-acts as an INFJ. She's just so unlike other INFJs I know.
Then sometimes you care about a person a lot and if what's best for them is detachment... all you can do is let that happen. I'll always have a soft spot for the special someone though even if nothing is acknowledged.
How are you like when in love? Intense? Slow in beginning but then nuts? Nuts in the beginning but then more controled/less expressive/enthusiastic but still hot on the inside?My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca
01-23-2011, 01:22 PM #467
Still...the statement appears over and over again...and so I am left thinking...what is true? And so I will press again...and see what happens.
Who decides what is best for the other person? Does the INFJ make all decisions in this regard? Do INFJs experience relationships as equals...or is the INFJ always a little bit above, parental, all-knowing...and therefore has the power to make decisions on the part of the other individual without the other individual's input?
A direct/plain/honest answer would lay this to rest for me. thank you so much.
01-23-2011, 03:12 PM #468
as to the prompt that led to your questions, we act based on our sense of the ecological validity to what we are doing. well, our primary mode of being ethical is to use this kind of systemic intelligence to understand the effect/affect/resonance of what our actions amounts to given what we have internalized about the expectations of others and their place within the current socio-cultural system, what is likely for them. this creates a nasty habit of not acting, of withholding information that would allow them to make the choice, and can amount to a communication barrier in a relationship (similarly to how not sharing Ji stories that you are telling to yourself, including the ones that are feasible but not the one you tell to us, doesn't really accurately reflect what is true for you, just what is not literally false (i know a lot of entps who do this all the time in relationships). or for Fi types who have faith, but don't really illustrate the limitations of that and then we don't really understand what why how when where etc, but yes, something did change--> this does not allow us to feel like we have any control either, it takes away our sense of compromise, of working together, of giving us a sense of expectation and prediction which is important to our well-being). both sides have needs of finding balance with regards to sharing/not sharing, but this is the way that Je types have to work with that in mind. obviously these tools can be used in both positive and negative ways, for good intentions and bad, and for being open and being restrictive/misleading. but anyway, at times we will use this judgment process to assume that we need to detach so as not to pollute others or damage others with our own truth-problems (emotional, logical, representational) and also with regards to us balancing our sense of what we want against the poles of acceptance vs expectation.
01-24-2011, 01:00 AM #469
And for the first time I got it…got this. And I needed to get this.
You are so right. Both sides definitely need to find balance with regards to sharing/not sharing. I also think both sides, like you illustrate above, need to find balance with regards to ‘perceiving/judging’. I will say though, that all the stuff I don't share...I usually don't share because it often feels meaningless. Like pretty (or sometimes ugly) images dancing around in my head. If I am getting ready to make some sort of decision about all that dancing stuff...then I usually get prepared to share. But that is just me...and not necessarily ExxPs in general.
But wow…the INFJ sure seems to put the J into INFJ (what?). Umm…I’ve got a life chalk full of ISTJs, ESFJs, ENFJs, INTJs and yes, an ISFJ here and there. And just from personal experience I can seemingly navigate these Js far better. And so you are right. I believe we are back to the sharing/not sharing. None of these Js have ever thought to withhold from me what their Js needed in order to make the relationship work. Perhaps, at times, I have wished they had!! LOL. Likewise, though, I could reach into these individuals. It may take a lot of work…but together we could eventually find that broken connection and repair it…and together we could create some living, working compromise.
The INFJs in my life seem a little more resistant to this type of work (remember, this is just my life examples). I seem to instead be constantly worried that I am going to somehow screw something up…like there is no room for error. I realize I am overly sensitive…but there is a sense that a decision will be made without reaching into me…oh and once that gavel comes down?
I realize now that it is not the way in which the information is gathered that is so threatening to me. I realize I do not so much mind people I trust making decisions on my behalf. It is merely how not flexible/temporary those decisions are. I need the decisions to be temporary…until such a time I am addressed and included. Until such a time we work together on it. It is the finality of the decisions, without my input, that is so frightening. Thank you for helping me reach that in a meaningful way.
ps...how do I give you rep?
01-24-2011, 09:42 PM #470
you have to share your Fi to get us to share what our Fe is taking in, and then we need an honest discussion on your subjective story of experience, the foundation of the Fi values that help navigate the possibilities of the moment, and also a sense of being situated in that moment. it needs to become more real to us. we need to get at it from the inside, to see what your possibilities are, in order to understand the unfolding story from the interior.
i also don't think we make these overly final decisions. we just don't know what to do, so then we get avoidant. i think both sides have a tendency to be avoidant but for very different reasons. doorslam isn't final moral judgment, it's avoidance. if we have a moral judgment attached, it's because we can not alleviate our feelings, anxieties, concerns, expectations, painful disillusionments. but much of that is in service of our own egos and we can see this better when we realize our typology, our map of how things should be represented on our symbolic system, doesn't really fit the experience of others, that we are not accounting for the key differences as well as we think we are. that sense of error opens up the possibility to look at/examine our own distortions and incompletenesses (after all, our version of typological thinking, of representations/symbols, of conceptual structure is based on compressing all the world's information into a hierarchically compact, symbolic form) much more freely.
it's still missing a piece. we're not making the decision really on behalf of you, we're making it based on our form of ethics. so we're deciding to meet our own ethical needs, not to meet your actual needs. but our ethical system is based on ecological validity rather than internal validity, so we are focused on what we think is ecologically right for you, and at times that can diminish your experience. the tj types might be better at just doing it and then negotiating. their sense of what is not true is more directly informative and visible to you, whereas Fe might be more of a contrastive faith in different methodologies. 4s, 5s, and 9s also tend to withdraw when overwhelmed, which can have a strongly contrary effect to what would be best for them, to instead connect, share, act, disclose, be open, assert desires and intentions, etc. this last one is the most difficult for me, which creates layers and layers of uncertainty in the interaction for both parties. i am working very hard to solve this, but it's not easy; a lifetime of bad habits and good reasons why the system works the way it does.
i agree maybe a little more with some of the T women critiquing the relationship approaches toward inxx e5 males that babying them can be destructive to the babyer. but i also think i fairly/rightly see equally avoidant tendencies with e5s and e7s on both sides that demand solutions in order for it to work. it's the avoidance that undermines the growth potential and allows for the same old coping mechanisms to prevent the necessary WORK from being done.
[ENFP] Common ENFP issuesBy Amargith in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 722Last Post: 03-16-2017, 04:22 PM
[INTJ] Common INTJ IssuesBy highlander in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)Replies: 309Last Post: 01-06-2017, 06:29 PM
[ENFJ] Common ENFJ IssuesBy Domino in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 206Last Post: 01-03-2017, 03:22 PM
By Lenian in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 2Last Post: 04-22-2016, 01:28 PM
By Lenian in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 0Last Post: 01-31-2011, 05:16 PM