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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #391
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Which makes me feel like you want me to assume more of the risk. Is that true?
    Why are you people so paranoid?

  2. #392
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    No, I just dissect their brains as I am an official INTJ emo stalker.
    If you ever get so far as to building your own secret evil laboratory in which to store and experiment on INTJs- for the sake of poking them with varying degrees of Fi to make them giggle like Pillsbury Doughboys- would you please videotape some of it for us?

    You could lure them there by... well, telling them it's a secret evil laboratory.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  3. #393

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    Common issue with me: feeling guilt when I say "no" to hanging out with people, because it means I am putting myself first. It's pretty annoying sometimes.
    Pick up your crazy heart and give it one more try.

  4. #394
    Senior Member Array mochajava's Avatar
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    -Feeling guilty about INFJ withdrawal

    -Not speaking up until things have built up so much that I withdraw/shut down/otherwise cannot speak up easily.

    -Not wanting to see people, wanting social contact through writing (ahem!)

  5. #395

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    Being an INFJ:

    Almost 7 years ago I went to New Orleans and met some great people and we hung out for a few days together. We didn't keep in touch because our meetings were brief, but I have always thought about them and wondered if they were okay. So yesterday I looked them up on the internet, and found two of them, and they were okay. And they were happy and beautiful and I was so happy and I am even getting choked up writing about it. I am not going to say anything because it's been so long and I doubt they remember me and I wonder if I seem creepy, but I am so happy for them.

    Today I read about a boy who went missing after he was dropped off at school early in the morning and his picture was taken by his science project at school right before, and they included the picture. I was in public so I didn't cry, but I wanted to really bad.

    Sometimes when I see old people I almost start crying or I do because they remind me of my grandparents and I love my grandparents.

    I don't know where else to put this.
    Pick up your crazy heart and give it one more try.

  6. #396
    Senior Member Array mochajava's Avatar
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    More -

    I randomly thought of an old co-worker. Someone who had interviewed me actually, and then I lost contact with her after that. She had died, right around the moments I thought of her. Creepy, huh? But apparently this stuff is part of the usual INFJ descriptions.

  7. #397

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'm not very clear on what Ne does or how. I know that it's about taking random bits of information from outside sources and drawing it all together into something interesting or meaningful, but I don't have a very real sense of how that's done or what it means in practical terms. For Ni, despite it being my primary function, I think I'm close enough to it that it's hard to be aware of when I'm using it and how. (I actually found highlander's stars beside Ni related points quite useful!) I'd be interested in what you could say about NeTe or NiTi because I don't think I have a very good grasp of how it would affect interactions between people.
    Fidleia had asked above about what NiTi might do...Entropie posted the below quote about his INFJ on another thread that sheds light on what NiTi might do in a people situation...

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    To me it has always been impossible to understand other people in any way at all. I am good at reflecting the emotions they show or recognizing recurring patterns in behaviour I can then associate to a somewhat understanding of a person, to get along with said person very good on a friend basis but I was never able to really deeply understand a human being or to even see what made this human being.

    After I met my girlfriend, of whom I think she is infj, I was presented an outstanding knowledge of the human nature. She like looks a person ion the face and she can tell you the whole persons story. It's amazing and the most amazing thing about it is it works in reality for her on a daily basis and she doesnt even recognize it as a talent. So this is like active applied sciences and not only grey theory like mbti.

    But: when I confronted her with mbti, she thought of it as bullshit. This deeply alienated me from mbti theory, cause I've seen her talent and if a capable person makes the call, I trust her. So I ran through the world typing everything and noone really understood wtf I'm talking about really.
    Perhaps this is how INFJs use NiTi...they bring contextual information via Fe and analyze with Ni....but they use Ti to turn the indivisual into a logical system of points? But as entopie noted, it happens instantly or as the other INFJs pointed out through a series of questions that add more and more precision and resolution to understanding that particular individuals needs. So NeTe in an ENFP will generalize everyone into patterns and derive global approximate solutions. NiTi in INFJs will focus in on one individual, and then derive a very individualized, precise, contextually dependent understanding of the issue.

    (Please comment on these thoughts and correct if they seem incorrect or I have misunderstood nuances....My goal is to leave them as a possible starting idea, a skeleton, one of many, that may be of value to INFJs, since the question was asked by Fidelia earlier in this thread....)

  8. #398
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Fidleia had asked above about what NiTi might do...Entropie posted the below quote about his INFJ on another thread that sheds light on what NiTi might do in a people situation...



    Perhaps this is how INFJs use NiTi...they bring contextual information via Fe and analyze with Ni....but they use Ti to turn the indivisual into a logical system of points? But as entopie noted, it happens instantly or as the other INFJs pointed out through a series of questions that add more and more precision and resolution to understanding that particular individuals needs. So NeTe in an ENFP will generalize everyone into patterns and derive global approximate solutions. NiTi in INFJs will focus in on one individual, and then derive a very individualized, precise, contextually dependent understanding of the issue.

    (Please comment on these thoughts and correct if they seem incorrect or I have misunderstood nuances....My goal is to leave them as a possible starting idea, a skeleton, one of many, that may be of value to INFJs, since the question was asked by Fidelia earlier in this thread....)
    I'm fairly sure that this is just normal NiFe, not NiTi. Ni instantly delves in and figures everything out, in Fe terms. Fe then can tell the person's "story." Ti comes into play by internally editing and making sure that things are self consistent, and can lend an air of precision to the story, but it is difficult to say this is somehow "NiTi" as some sort of distinct entity or process.

    Rather, I think of it as several parallel processes:
    1. Ni "just knows" something, in its own magical way (assume fairly mature Ni developed with real experience).
    2. Fe is the preference for Ni to develop towards understanding people rather than things. So that "just knowing" works really well with people, not so good with "things."
    3. Ti is the preference to be consistent and logically precise in one's definitions and facts, which, along with Fe, acknowledges that "no one really knows all of the truth." It will "color" the Fe-style descriptions, but it will not predominate. Compare with INTPs, where the logical precision dominates, but is occasionally "colored" by Fe sarcasm, for example.


    In the ENFP case
    1. Ne "experiences" one or more abstract connections based on any of a number of real sensory inputs. This is done without thought.
    2. Fi is the preference to gravitate towards experiences that generate internal feelings. Logical self-consistency isn't required: each experience is its own thing valid in it's own way. Rather, the Ne experiences become the bases for self-understanding (Fi), as opposed to the INFJ pattern of Ni experiences becoming the basis for understanding of others (Fe).
    3. Te is the desire to make some sort of "sense" out of the very real chaos generated by Ne/Fi. It doesn't require self-consistency, but it does require that any sort of idea or process "works." It colors the Ne/Fi understandings in such a way as to be very "blunt" or "harsh".



    Ne vs Ni is just a matter of focus. Both are attitudes that believe there is always "something more" than what is immediately observed.

    Ni focuses on the internal workings of that which is observed, and becomes very knowledgeable of its processes, of how it works. When a similar thing is encountered (e.g., another human being), that knowledge is applied to be able to make predictions, to "magically know things."

    Ne doesn't delve deeper within the object itself, but rather sees patterns repeated through many different things in the world. For instance, an Ne insight would be that if one is observing X here, there are all these other things that are "kind of like X" and thus this one observation here implies truths about all those other things to which X is abstractly connected. In the case of Ne with Ti, this would be the (quite true) observation that waves in water are like waves in light are like waves in springs are like waves in sound. We can use water wave behavior to understand light wave behavior, and so on. (There are nitpicky differences of course, but this is the Ne starting point.) NeFi does the same thing with feelings, people and other typically Fi concerns. In both the Ti and Fi cases, the Ne connections are applied to enhance personal understanding, not to "know" or "predict" as in the Ni case.

  9. #399
    i love Array skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Ne vs Ni is just a matter of focus. Both are attitudes that believe there is always "something more" than what is immediately observed.

    Ni focuses on the internal workings of that which is observed, and becomes very knowledgeable of its processes, of how it works. When a similar thing is encountered (e.g., another human being), that knowledge is applied to be able to make predictions, to "magically know things."

    Ne doesn't delve deeper within the object itself, but rather sees patterns repeated through many different things in the world. For instance, an Ne insight would be that if one is observing X here, there are all these other things that are "kind of like X" and thus this one observation here implies truths about all those other things to which X is abstractly connected. I
    n the case of Ne with Ti, this would be the (quite true) observation that waves in water are like waves in light are like waves in springs are like waves in sound. We can use water wave behavior to understand light wave behavior, and so on. (There are nitpicky differences of course, but this is the Ne starting point.) NeFi does the same thing with feelings, people and other typically Fi concerns. In both the Ti and Fi cases, the Ne connections are applied to enhance personal understanding, not to "know" or "predict" as in the Ni case.
    wow, uumlau, i was just reading this again, and i have to say thank you so much for this explanation. i have a pretty good sense of what Ne feels like, but it's extremely pleasing (and helpful) to have it expressed so well in concrete terms. on the other hand, i have very limited sense of Ni, and this helps me to understand it a lot better.

    i get the whole Ne understanding vs. Ni prediction thing now. because Ne is directed into an introverted process, while Ni is directed into an extraverted process. Ni delves in and follows the pattern out, while Ne senses the pattern from without and delves with it within.

    and your example resonates well, it seems to me that theoretical physics is very much an NeFi concern too... you know, everything being connected, ultimate meaning, and all that

    anyway --

    my point in this thread was just to post this wonderful quote that made me immediately think INFJ, and fortunately i think it seems fairly relevant given the discussion of iNtuition...

    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    To see a world in a grain of sand,
    And a heaven in a wild flower,
    Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
    And eternity in an hour.
    yay iNtuition

  10. #400

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    I cannot really comment regarding the INFJ scenarios above...that for them to comment on.

    As for the ENFP ideas, I figured Id get the heck out of the INFJ thread as I dont think they want us to keep talking about ourselves here

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1276782

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