I think what you are seeing, Starry Knights, is the difference between how we treat those close to us and how we treat those that are just pretty good friends. I have very few people in my life that I would actually try to point out what they are doing that isn't working for them or bring up and issue that is causing friction between us. They would either have to be one of 2-3 people in my most inner circle (and even then it would be with a lot of thought and trepidation) or someone that I couldn't work around in any other way so have to deal with the issue.
With someone who is a decent friend (but not in my very inner circle), I would probably tell them what was wrong if asked, but if I didn't foresee a productive outcome to the conflict it would engender, I would just withdraw, see them less frequently or keep things more superficial.
I don't think INFJs will back down a lot if they feel something is extremely important, they really don't like bringing up problems, partially because they know how deeply it impacts them when other people do. It's a painful experience. They only do it if they are absolutely certain how the other person will react and have either judged that the person will respond positively, or that the benefits outweigh the possible costs. They often don't realize that they are creating more trouble for people by not addressing issues openly and that it makes the other person feel shut out and like the INFJ thinks they know what's best for everyone.
The INFJ also usually doesn't realize that others don't always feel criticism as personally as we do. I have noticed that ENFPs are much better at handling criticism objectively than we are, as long as they feel accepted by us. We tend to feel rejected no matter what and deeply ashamed and embarrassed (or if we don't respect the person we'll be bothered by it, but dismiss them).
Thread: Common INFJ issues
07-26-2010, 02:05 PM #311
Last edited by fidelia; 07-26-2010 at 05:14 PM. Reason: stupid edit function! Was trying to fix paragraphs and typos
07-26-2010, 02:07 PM #312
I guess I should say, that middle ground of acquaintance ranging to good but not inner circle friend is where this happens most. If I do not care too much about the relationship, I may take risks that I wouldn't with someone that I care more about but whom I'm not inner circle close to. If it turns out well, I've made a friend that will be easier to deal with or that will be helped by my advice. If not, my life will go on just fine.
07-27-2010, 11:35 AM #313
Using typology, it makes it even easier to see: whatever type one is, there is a set of strengths and a set of weaknesses. There is no "uber" type that is obviously better than all the rest. (INTJ being a notable exception, of course!)
The main problem with the "Fe style" in terms of the Fi perspective is that the Fe style will phrase things in such a way that implies that the other is just not a "good person", that there is something intrinsically wrong with the other, and not merely a flaw to be corrected. Fi needs to hear things in terms of Te: there needs to be a logistical reason for the correction, not a peer-pressure reason. In particular, any kind of reasoning that demonstrates that an Fi user isn't living up to the Fi user's own standards, will be effective. Calling the Fi user a hypocrite, even though it means the same thing, will be ineffective.
This kind of thing can even happen when arguing about something as "objective" as physics. I can throw equation after equation, logic after logic, all proving my point, and still find no common ground. Then I quote Richard Feynman, for example, and suddenly I have agreement?!
07-27-2010, 08:07 PM #314
Heck. I'll agree with you for a doughnut.eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
AIS Holland code
07-27-2010, 08:22 PM #315
07-27-2010, 08:32 PM #316
Yep, for me, it's what qualifies you to say something (personal experience, credentials etc). While facts are great for supporting, unless I can see a human application and I think you've earned the right to say it, I don't listen as easily. Good to know about how it looks from the opposite perspective. There's been a lot so far in these three threads to help make clearer more effective and convincing communication with NFPs easier.
07-28-2010, 03:40 AM #317
How does one avoid said effect?★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★
"Be careful what you believe, because that is the world you'll create - Cassie Nightingale
07-28-2010, 07:53 AM #318
07-28-2010, 07:58 AM #319
Which don't have to be in the form of degrees.
07-28-2010, 09:49 AM #320
And yeah- it does work to appeal to my sense of what’s fair. But objective arguments work as well, they just have to be sound. The only reason- ever- spewing ‘facts’ doesn’t work with me is because it isn’t a convincing argument. It’s amazing to me sometimes how some people think I should be swayed by half-ass arguments. It's rarely worth putting the effort into figuring out how to articulate why an argument seems flawed. This is why it feels like Te types are perpetually trying to cram their own will down my throat.
edit: That's so funny. INTP just started a thread saying kind of this same thing.
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