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[INFJ] Common INFJ issues

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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Don't know where else to drop this question -

Do people easily disappoint you?

Especially in relationships.
I get disappointed when they don't like me as much as I like them in friendships and past crushes. I can also be disappointed if the friendship is superficial and just for a diversion, but not intended to make a positive impact on either life.

I am disappointed in one failed friendship with a woman here in town who plays my same instrument. I *really* liked her a lot, but she was always really distant. At first she seemed invested in getting to know me, but then she became really distant and it would take months of occasional email communication to get together for coffee. She would also ignore me at work meetings and be friendly to others which hurt my feelings. I finally just decided that she must be disappointed or disinterested in knowing me and have given up. She would throw out a little double message and I think she may have played some social games. I still like her, but this friendship thing is not worth the effort and confusion and so that disappoints me.
 

Fidelia

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[MENTION=6164]Riva[/MENTION] (how's that????)

Once I am in a committed relationship or have been close friends with someone for a long time, even when those deep disappointments start occurring (enough to eclipse the happy moments in the relationship), I'm still very reluctant to get out. If someone has had a history of being trustworthy with me and then new information comes to light, it takes awhile for me to reconcile that in my head and understand that continuing on is futile. I don't really easily go for someone (because I usually start from a position of assuming incompatibilities until proven otherwise), so when I do, it takes a long time for me to truly give up on them. That is not always a good thing.

I think Z Buck and I are actually pretty much on the same page in what we were saying. I don't think it's incompatible.
 

SilkRoad

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I'm going to be horrendously lazy and somewhat redundant here and just say that I deeply agree with (and almost could have written) most of what [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] have said about various types of relationships :)
 

the state i am in

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I think the reason I need to be friends with someone for a while before getting in a relationship is precisely because I need to make sure ideals/goals are aligned enough for that not to easily happen. I do get disappointed relatively easy- though it’s really more about being disappointed to find they have different priorities than actually being disappointment in them. But that’s why I need to know someone well first- I loathe the idea of imposing my own priorities on another person, I need to make sure they already have similar values.

Even using the heavy screening process though, both relationships I’ve been in as an adult have resulted in me eventually distancing myself as a result of needing to maintain my own ideals while not wanting to impose them. That distancing ruined one for sure, and played a big role in the other. So yeah, it is a problem.

I'm totally going to die alone. THANKS FOR THE REMINDER, RIVA.

/ w4

i liken this to trust issues and feel like you've hit the nail on the head in attributing this particular type of trust issue to e4. e4 doms, however, often have a bit deeper creative impulse, so they get tied up by their own defenses in a different way, through more experimentation. e4s and e5s are experts at disconnection, emotional and mental. we demand the right to our own understanding but can have trouble negotiating, engaging in a process of collaborative reasoning, which requires us to stay much more grounded in particular situations and requires us to find ways of relating to them across the translation gap from our weird fortress of solitude.

it's such a challenging process to figure out when you have to give in and just go get a place out in the suburbs. to let go of the responsibility to identify with all negative social difference and the way social differences are attributed to status, prestige, and value aesthetically and otherwise in the construction of justice. because it focuses on why social expectations (a part of all social relations) are inherently damaging.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Fascinating thread. Interestingly, the INFJs whom I know seem to have similar thinking habits, however, their personalities differ from each other in many important ways. This makes me guess that only some of the INFJs experience most of the aforementioned issues, it seems to be rather difficult to determine what people of each type have in common. Perhaps that's why I still don't know my type after I've read a couple of books on typology.
 

uumlau

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Fascinating thread. Interestingly, the INFJs whom I know seem to have similar thinking habits, however, their personalities differ from each other in many important ways. This makes me guess that only some of the INFJs experience most of the aforementioned issues, it seems to be rather difficult to determine what people of each type have in common. Perhaps that's why I still don't know my type after I've read a couple of books on typology.
The bolded above is exactly what MBTI typology means. It's "thinking habits", not "personality" per se. Thinking habits influence overall personality, but don't dominate it. I think it's more useful to know "thinking habits" than "personality", anyway: if I know how other people think, I know better how to communicate with them.

I kind of look at individual personalities and typology (any typology, not just MBTI) as a Venn diagram. Your "type" is what most closely matches you, and you are very clearly that type and no other (once you get beneath the superficial descriptions), and you mostly overlap (in a Venn diagram kind of way) with other people of that type in the context of matters that pertain to type.

It's the "in the context of ... type" bit that makes it fuzzy, but there is, surprisingly, usefulness in the fuzziness, because people really are that complicated, and typology is an attempt to simplify and clarify. It necessarily does so by paying attention to particular factors and ignoring others. As a good example, INTPs and INTJs are typically nerds who are into science or math and end up in very technical careers, but, clearly, there's no way that EVERY INTx is going to be technically oriented. I personally know INTJs and INTPs who aren't technically inclined at all, but they are clearly INTJ-ish or INTP-ish in their approach to their non-technical matters, with the INTJs quickly dismissing irrelevant data and getting to the core of a problem and INTPs losing track of time and practicalities as they investigate and probe their current topic of interest.

What's really interesting, at least in terms of perusing the various typology forums, is that seeing other types discuss/argue their ideas with each other really makes it clear which type is which (there are always outliers and mistyped people, but the pattern is still visible). In my case, I couldn't tell, at first, whether I was INTJ or INTP, solely based on the descriptions (mostly because a lot of my behavior/approach is "P"-like). When I started reading debates between self-typed INTJs and INTPs on various forums, I usually found the INTJ posts more like something I would write (regardless of whether I agreed with the specific opinion) than the INTP posts. It eventually became clear to me that I don't think anything like an INTP. I could go in to elaborate detail as to why and how (I've spent years studying this), but even now it's difficult to verbalize the difference: it's something that you need to see in action, there really aren't words for the concepts behind it ... except, of course, the words provided by the typology itself. And, as you initially pointed out, it all boils down to "thinking habits". INTP thinking habits differ from mine, quite significantly.

In terms of identifying your own type, I'd say try the same thing, spend time at the type specific forums (INTJ and INTP since you self-type as INTx), and see if you can figure out which type tends to jibe more with "how you think".
 

Tiltyred

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Does anyone else have this -- I have steady evidence of precognition in my life. And I steadily hear people making snotty remarks about people who believe they have precognition. How do I reconcile this?
Example: at the doctor's office, I'm told my prescription will be called in. I *know* I'm not going to be picking it up, for some reason. I see myself picking it up over the weekend (which is not what I want).
I get home and there's a message from the doctor's office. They want me to verify the pharmacy phone number. The next day, I call and verify the pharmacy phone number. I am told I'll be able to pick up my prescription that evening. I *know* this is not going to happen. And I get the thought "the pharmacy doesn't have that medication in stock and they will have to order it."
I get to work and there's a call from the pharmacy telling me they don't have the medication in stock and they will have to order it.
Since the pharmacy will be closed by the time I get off work, I will indeed be picking up my prescription over the weekend.
This happens constantly. I'm not making it up.
Why do people feel a need to ridicule "magic Ni"? I can't explain it either and I almost wish I didn't have it, but it is my experience of life.
 

Standuble

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Does anyone else have this -- I have steady evidence of precognition in my life. And I steadily hear people making snotty remarks about people who believe they have precognition. How do I reconcile this?
Example: at the doctor's office, I'm told my prescription will be called in. I *know* I'm not going to be picking it up, for some reason. I see myself picking it up over the weekend (which is not what I want).
I get home and there's a message from the doctor's office. They want me to verify the pharmacy phone number. The next day, I call and verify the pharmacy phone number. I am told I'll be able to pick up my prescription that evening. I *know* this is not going to happen. And I get the thought "the pharmacy doesn't have that medication in stock and they will have to order it."
I get to work and there's a call from the pharmacy telling me they don't have the medication in stock and they will have to order it.
Since the pharmacy will be closed by the time I get off work, I will indeed be picking up my prescription over the weekend.
This happens constantly. I'm not making it up.
Why do people feel a need to ridicule "magic Ni"? I can't explain it either and I almost wish I didn't have it, but it is my experience of life.

I would assume because it's not actually magic and that there is no doubt a rational explanation based in science and empiricism which is just out of reach at the moment. Plus one would ask on the amount of times the precognition fails to materialise or said users convince themselves that events did play out as the prediction determined by considering and making a pattern out of only some of the data with a perspective that misconstrues or completely overlooks some of the rest of the data to support said pattern. Most people would sooner or later get a prediction correct, you could think up a hundred possibilities and one by law of averages would be partially true. But someone who predicts an event correct but makes incorrect predictions on 50 other events is not a fortune teller, they are just deluding themselves through selection bias.
 

Tiltyred

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Thanks for responding, [MENTION=14363]Standuble[/MENTION]. :)
It's not that I'm making predictions -- I'm not doing anything. It's more like I get messages. If I get one, it's accurate. I don't get them about most things, but I get them often enough, about little daily stuff like this, that I can actually use it. For example, I did not go to the pharmacy near my house before I came home from the doctor, because I knew there would be no prescription, even though the doctor's office told me they were going to call it in.
Anyway -- not to make this thread about me. I just bring it up because it's a common issue for this INFJ. People don't believe me or try to logic me out of things. It can occasionally cause problems in relationships, where I appear to be irrationally stubborn and insist that I know what I know.
 

Standuble

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Thanks for responding, [MENTION=14363]Standuble[/MENTION]. :)
It's not that I'm making predictions -- I'm not doing anything. It's more like I get messages. If I get one, it's accurate. I don't get them about most things, but I get them often enough, about little daily stuff like this, that I can actually use it. For example, I did not go to the pharmacy near my house before I came home from the doctor, because I knew there would be no prescription, even though the doctor's office told me they were going to call it in.
Anyway -- not to make this thread about me. I just bring it up because it's a common issue for this INFJ. People don't believe me or try to logic me out of things. It can occasionally cause problems in relationships, where I appear to be irrationally stubborn and insist that I know what I know.

Thank you for your response Tilty. Btw, I was aware its not a case of making predictions - that would be a judging function not a perceiving function at work. Also I'm not dismissing the possibility of pre-cognition being a real phenomena (even though I'm admittedly a sceptic) more the idea that its magical or mystical in any way, with all clues behind its occurrence lying in observable, empirical data in the present. I myself am not alien to the phenomena either though the Ne likes to throw out lots of possible outcomes to make things more interesting.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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Does anyone else have this -- I have steady evidence of precognition in my life. And I steadily hear people making snotty remarks about people who believe they have precognition. How do I reconcile this?
Example: at the doctor's office, I'm told my prescription will be called in. I *know* I'm not going to be picking it up, for some reason. I see myself picking it up over the weekend (which is not what I want).
I get home and there's a message from the doctor's office. They want me to verify the pharmacy phone number. The next day, I call and verify the pharmacy phone number. I am told I'll be able to pick up my prescription that evening. I *know* this is not going to happen. And I get the thought "the pharmacy doesn't have that medication in stock and they will have to order it."
I get to work and there's a call from the pharmacy telling me they don't have the medication in stock and they will have to order it.
Since the pharmacy will be closed by the time I get off work, I will indeed be picking up my prescription over the weekend.
This happens constantly. I'm not making it up.
Why do people feel a need to ridicule "magic Ni"? I can't explain it either and I almost wish I didn't have it, but it is my experience of life.

I don't believe i've ever had such an experience. Although many times i've read that such a thing can result from Ni.

But I wonder if that stems from a misunderstanding of how that information was understood and connected in the mind?
 

Tiltyred

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It could have to do with that. It could have to do with my perception of or relationship with time being slightly different. It could be a lot of things. I can't explain it. (btw I didn't mean I really thought it was magic -- but it has been mockingly referred to as "magic Ni").
 
S

Society

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I wonder if that stems from a misunderstanding of how that information was understood and connected in the mind?

well, i think i can try to explain this on two levels:

the immediate expectation:
many people - quite possibly most - do not tend to accept asserted statements in blind faith - not to mention predictions - from anyone. they want the idea behind the prediction explained, the reasons, the causality, the circumstances that would lead to the predicted outcome, so that they can examine it themselves. this 'burden' isn't type exclusive - we all share it. unfortunately, language has evolved to accommodate the process of some functions more then others:




the accumulative expectation
unlike the above, this is one area where NiFe and NiTe will behave in almost opposite ways, so given this thread's topic, i will focus on the negative perception or "ridicule" and negative misunderstandings relating to NiFe users (probably unhealthy ones), as it is - with frightening frequently - experienced by others:
 

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bcoz14

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I would prefer if you did not paraphrase me here. I called them "Character flaws" because that is what they are, They can not be fixed or altered because they are not seen as such. The 1st step to change and growth is admitting it is needed.

There is nothing wrong with being flawed, because it is a universal truth of the human condition.
I will say it again.. It's a one way insight into humanity. " I see into you, I see into me, I see you better than you can see yourself, and you can't see into me at all."


Let me put forth an argument with the intent cause debate:

Premise 1: It is in the permanent nature of the INFJ to be drawn to room for change and growth. (I read this somewhere...:thinking:)

Premise 2: Arclight seems to believe that the INFJ can and should fix or alter his/her character flaws so that he/she can change and grow.

Conclusion: Therefore, said "Character Flaws," the subjects of change and growth, cannot be fixed or altered.

It follows then that "Character Flaws," as defined by Arclife, and "Misunderstandings," as defined by fidelia, are one in the same.

This would also mean that Arclife has contradicted himself (herself?) with the statement "There is nothing wrong with being flawed" since he believes these Flaws should be fixed or altered.

Now, I have a feeling that Arclife could have intended the statement "there is nothing wrong with being flawed" to mean that one should not feel bad for being flawed (since it is "a universal truth of the human condition"). I hear you, Arclife, and it is kindhearted of you to try to prevent fidelia from reacting with negative emotions (even if this was an unconscious attempt), but negative emotions are an appropriate initial reaction to learning that one is "flawed," whether permanently or not.

Now, which of the following should we believe?
1) We are fine the way we are, character flaws and all
2) There is always room for improvement
3) A combination of these two with a sprinkling of "it depends"

Discourse!

P.S. - I realize the post I'm replying to is over 3 years old, but I'm new to forums and it was an interesting topic to discuss nonetheless!)
 
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