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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #281
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    The Fi tree ... here's a link to a post you may enjoy.

    Read through the whole thread though for context if you have time.

    It's uumlau's thread on Fi.

    Fi axioms as a tree metaphor
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #282
    Uniqueorn Array William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
    Fi users need somehow to be validated, and feel a sense of rejection of they are not, and Fe users, need to know they were appreciated for having their opinion (attention) matter in the first place... sigh!

    I think those on the extreme ends of the typing can learn a great deal from eachother, and those within a close percentage of the P and J functions, can see both sides.
    From SolitaryWalker's very long INFP profile (http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...p-profile.html). I disagree with parts of it but it's a very interesting and rewarding read.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker
    Earlier, we have mentioned that the primary drive of an Extroverted Feeler is to direct passions to the outside, and by these merits their whole being will be fulfilled. The Introverted Feeler, however, does not need to direct passions to the outside in order to be fulfilled, because he/she can accomplish this internally. The Extroverted Feeler, is the go-getter, one who likely will do all that is necessary in order to achieve the goal of being loved, ostensibly by attempting to 'love others'. Yet the INFP needs to be engaged first. This is much akin to how INTPs tend to be excellent self-starters when engaged by a task, though non-starters when not-engaged. This is a property of Extroverted Intuition for both types, as we can only be informed of the task through our perceiving function. Since the perceiving function for INPs is extroverted, it must derive from the outside. They may remain stagnant for long periods of time due to their internsely internally focused nature, much unlike ENPs who would pursue the external tasks in a highly energetic fashion. For this reason, the INFP, as beforementioned is highly likely to retreat to the inner world for intense emotional experiences. Introverted Feeling, as a dominant function, always needs to be making decisions, as we see that it is an end in itself and therefore internally fueled. Hence, so long as the inner being is in operational mode for the INFP, Introverted Feeling will be in session.
    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker
    Unlike the Extroverted Feeler who may need ritual-like consistent reassurance of being appreciated, the INFP merely needs to know that they are appreciated. Much like the Extroverted Thinker needs to be solving problems consistently in order to feel competent, the Introverted Thinker only needs to know that he can solve a problem if necessary. Since Introverted Feeling requires more authenticity than Extroverted, due to the factor of introversion which demands more depth, the INFP, despite the lack of a need for constant reassurance will require to be appreciated more in order to be in their own element. The INFP is most influenced of all types by their emotional environment due to the fact that their feeling preferrence is stronger than that of other types. It should be noted, however, that extroversion almost by property of itself implies a more scattered attunement with many entities at the same time, whilst introversion implies an intense attunement with a few entities. Based on this, one could speculate that the INFP is only intensely attuned with the few things that are held in high esteem by their values, and has little regard for things that are not honored by their value system. This may be true, however, almost irrespectively of the situation they are facing, an INFP will find a few entities in their environment to be intensely emotionally attuned with. For this reason, the INFP will be more influenced by their external environment more than the Extroverted Feeling type.
    As PeaceBaby has said above, I don't need you to agree with my 'feelings' or the decisions I make with them. I just need you to respect and acknowledge that I am capable of having/doing both.

    Looks like the Fi's have decided to invade this thread
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  3. #283
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    Yes we are derailing, aren't we?^^^^^

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    The Fi tree ... here's a link to a post you may enjoy.

    Read through the whole thread though for context if you have time.

    It's uumlau's thread on Fi.

    Fi axioms as a tree metaphor


    If the tree is my Fi.. (I never saw the relation, but yeah uumlau is quite articulate and a genius)

    Then what is the puzzle?

  4. #284
    Uniqueorn Array William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    If the tree is my Fi.. (I never saw the relation, but yeah uumlau is quite articulate and a genius)

    Then what is the puzzle?
    I'd guess it's your Fi trying to get the pieces that Ne is feeding you to fit
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I'd guess it's your Fi trying to get the pieces that Ne is feeding you to fit
    Because Ne is an extroverted function, is that why it feels like it's coming from a different direction?

  6. #286
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I posted the link to that thread as tangential to the discussion at hand, merely because the tree diagram sparked the thought. You can extrapolate and ponder on it at your leisure.

    And for you as an Fi user, perhaps the thread would be of general interest as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Yes we are derailing, aren't we?^^^^^
    Then what is the puzzle?
    /end derail
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #287
    Member Array Evi's Avatar
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    I feel oddly relieved at the thought that people would want me to volunteer information, I tend to feel so guilty afterwards when I do and they haven't asked, even if I've asked them. And I just realized I have really long mental lists of what topics can be discussed with which people, for how long and what sort of mood they have to be in to do so. It's so strange, I've suspected that people might want this, but normally I dismiss it, unless I get the hint that they would in fact, like to know what I think. Actually that's part of the reason I don't post very often, although I do enjoy reading the threads. I think I'm a little giddy with the idea...

    And the idea of the tree makes a lot of sense to me.

  8. #288
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes, Fi users want you to share voluntarily. To translate into Fe terms, if Fi breaches the topic of one's own feelings, then implicit permission is given to you to divulge your own feelings, especially as related (by topic matter) to what the Fi user reveals.

    Think of it in terms of Fi precision: in Fi terms, there is no adequate question that can be asked. To Fi, "How are you?" is merely another form of "Hello" and not a "real question," because experience proves that most people who express an interest in how we feel don't want the "real answer." So to Fi, there is no good question and no good answer, so it's best to just say how one feels if one feels moved to do so.

    You might wonder how to "cut off" someone from endlessly nattering on about their feelings and experiences. The most effective is to simply affirm their feelings and maybe offer a practical solution if one is obvious - but affirming their feelings is enough. Don't try to explain how their feelings are wrong or inappropriate or shouldn't be expressed: this will extend the interaction into even more annoying territory, just say, "Yeah, that really sucks," or whatever is appropriate.

    Another way is to divulge your own feelings, should you believe it appropriate to do so, and don't wait for them to ask: the mere fact that they're divulging feelings means the topic is opened, and they'll not be upset should you discuss your own experience.

    A final way is to be more "INTJ" about it, and simply cut off communication, tersely. If you wait for a polite exit, the opportunity will rarely arise, because it relies upon the other having your sense of politeness. A simple, "Excuse me, but I have to go," should work OK.

    Reversing this, the Fe user's polite inquiry sounds offensive to the Fi user. If we wanted to talk about our feelings, we'd be talking about them already, and now we have to figure out how to refuse the inquiry. (You wonder why a "no" doesn't suffice? There is something about "Fe" language that seems to be heard in Fi terms that "no" isn't an acceptable answer, that the Fe user would be offended by the "no.")

    The best way to address this is just to recognize the signs, rather than give in to the annoyance factor. If you're Fe, and you hear an Fi person spout out about feelings, translate it into Fe speak, where the Fi user is asking how you feel about the topic, implicitly. It's just bass-ackwardsly saying how they feel first. And feel free to just say what you feel, and don't be obliged to inquire. If you're Fi, don't treat a question as to how you feel as being nosy. The proper way to say "no" is "I'm doing fine, thank you for asking." If the topic isn't too private, and you feel comfortable opening up, do so. After the topic has been about you and your feelings for 2 or 3 rounds, ask about their feelings. E.g., simply ask "What's you're opinion on the matter?" Remember that they need your permission to tell you what they really think. They won't just up and say it like you normally would.
    I feel like I'm being obsequious because I've complimented so many of today's posts, but uumlau this is really very, very impressive. You really have got this nailed down. This is a real map on how to navigate sometimes perilous Fe / Fi relations.

    Thank you.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  9. #289
    You have a choice! Array 21%'s Avatar
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    Re: Everything about Fi (by Arclight, PeaceBaby, Satine and everyone else!)

    Thank you! Your insight is greatly appreciated. You have put what I've been sensing from my INFP for a long time but unable to put my finger on into coherent paragraphs, which is very helpful!

    Now I just need to print some of that out and keep it in my pocket to remind myself where Fi is coming from

    Sorry for derailing this thread into yet another Fe/Fi discussion. Let's get back to the original topic now...

  10. #290
    Member Array Affably Evil's Avatar
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    This thread is astonishing.

    In light of so many of these posts, I've found myself re-examining communication problem areas that I've had with my close ENFP, our different methods for listening both to each other and to mutual friends, ways that we've clashed in the past... I have so much to think about, and I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread for contributing. I'll definitely be saving and printing some of the most salient parts.

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