User Tag List

Page 28 of 66 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 660

Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #271
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    9,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    If that's your worst, I will have to reconsider my nick name for you.. perhaps Kitten Lady would be more apt than Cat Lady.
    It has only been recently that I have considered the possibility of this being useful to do (being that direct, I mean) under the right conditions for mutual benefit and coming to a better understanding. If the same had happened in real life, it would not have gone down that way. If I bother to have conflict with someone, it is usually only the people in my very inner circle, or people that I will have to work with (and cannot work around) in my everyday existence (work or roommate).

    As strange as it sounds, I think it actually is a compliment in most cases if an INFJ does think that it is worth trying to have conflict. On the rare occasions where I've done it, it nearly always has resulted in a much closer relationship after and fewer problems. I did this with a boss/coworker once and we have remained very good friends to this day in a way that we wouldn't have been had it not happened. It feels very unnatural to me though. I would more likely play out the possible scenario in my head and decide it just wasn't worth it because of the way that I thought the other person would respond, the unlikelihood of coming to resolution, or ensuing emotional load that I would need to deal with after the fact. I think sometimes that's what bugs people about INFJs. They maybe feel like we write them off too easily or that we just abandon them if they don't do what we want them to.

    Perhaps I should have said it here instead of via rep, but I think it's important to make the distinction between an emotional outburst of anger and someone expressing that there is danger ahead. INFJs really don't like to not be in control of their emotions and in particularly don't like to be publicly not in control of their emotions. In my opinion, it would be unlikely to see an INFJ go off on you unless they felt it was preventing something worse from happening.

  2. #272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Ouch. That hurt. Because I consider myself a great communicator. And, I usually am. But apparently, I have a blind spot I didn't even know about.

    Even weirder is that I've been formally trained in active listening techniques.

    Nonetheless, I reluctantly admit that Peacebaby is correct.

    I guess both ways are valid. But I never would have applied the Fe-way outside of certain settings I was trained to use it in.

    And, what I've come to understand today, is that my Fi way was so fundamental to who I was, it never even occurred to me that there was another way of doing it.

    Excellent. I can't wait to try it out on my Fe friends and see what they do.
    hahaha! Yeah, I had no idea I did this until my ENFJ friend said so...this is why taking that Fe feedback and really stopping a few seconds to listen and think..even if it stings..can be quite useful. I still do it with other Fi users, but I actively experiment on my Fe friends.

    I went to lunch with my ISFJ friend who I havent seen lately last week.

    I was like "hmmm, I need to listen to her, then ask her questions about her...." I did this and then after a bit she went "Oh, well lets stop talking about me, how are you doing?" Uh-Uh, no you dont hehehehe, I just kept asking her more about her for a bit longer. It was amazing how happy she was. Sometimes it is hard though as I have to take the topic and twist it in my mind. I am used to internalizing what she says-so to then replay and then ask more questions doesnt come naturally, so at times I end up at a loss for what to ask next.

    But it made her seem very happy.

  3. #273
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    9,347

    Default

    This works well on INFJs too. We're pretty good as listening to other people and I've often found that Fi users will talk and talk to me. However, there often doesn't seem to be that question asking shift where they say, "Now, how about you?" and start asking questions. I feel rude breaking in and just talking about myself, particularly if I'm not sure the other person is all that interested (again that thing about wanting to be sure we're really welcome and that the other person WANTS to understand us rather than is just humouring us.)

  4. #274
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This works well on INFJs too. We're pretty good as listening to other people and I've often found that Fi users will talk and talk to me. However, there often doesn't seem to be that question asking shift where they say, "Now, how about you?" and start asking questions. I feel rude breaking in and just talking about myself, particularly if I'm not sure the other person is all that interested (again that thing about wanting to be sure we're really welcome and that the other person WANTS to understand us rather than is just humouring us.)
    I've noticed this as well. I often think Fi users want me to want to share voluntarily, without being prompted, whereas I would prefer being prompted so that I know they want to know.

    Turning it around, I think it's because I ask people stuff if I want to know about it; otherwise I don't ask or I don't continue asking questions or digging deeper. Change subject or something.(or, they'll keep talking even though I haven't really divulged/given the cue that I'm all that interested )
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints

  5. #275
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,550

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This works well on INFJs too. We're pretty good as listening to other people and I've often found that Fi users will talk and talk to me. However, there often doesn't seem to be that question asking shift where they say, "Now, how about you?" and start asking questions. I feel rude breaking in and just talking about myself, particularly if I'm not sure the other person is all that interested (again that thing about wanting to be sure we're really welcome and that the other person WANTS to understand us rather than is just humouring us.)
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I've noticed this as well. I often think Fi users want me to want to share voluntarily, without being prompted, whereas I would prefer being prompted so that I know they want to know.

    Turning it around, I think it's because I ask people stuff if I want to know about it; otherwise I don't ask or I don't continue asking questions or digging deeper. Change subject or something.(or, they'll keep talking even though I haven't really divulged/given the cue that I'm all that interested )
    Yes, Fi users want you to share voluntarily. To translate into Fe terms, if Fi breaches the topic of one's own feelings, then implicit permission is given to you to divulge your own feelings, especially as related (by topic matter) to what the Fi user reveals.

    Think of it in terms of Fi precision: in Fi terms, there is no adequate question that can be asked. To Fi, "How are you?" is merely another form of "Hello" and not a "real question," because experience proves that most people who express an interest in how we feel don't want the "real answer." So to Fi, there is no good question and no good answer, so it's best to just say how one feels if one feels moved to do so.

    You might wonder how to "cut off" someone from endlessly nattering on about their feelings and experiences. The most effective is to simply affirm their feelings and maybe offer a practical solution if one is obvious - but affirming their feelings is enough. Don't try to explain how their feelings are wrong or inappropriate or shouldn't be expressed: this will extend the interaction into even more annoying territory, just say, "Yeah, that really sucks," or whatever is appropriate.

    Another way is to divulge your own feelings, should you believe it appropriate to do so, and don't wait for them to ask: the mere fact that they're divulging feelings means the topic is opened, and they'll not be upset should you discuss your own experience.

    A final way is to be more "INTJ" about it, and simply cut off communication, tersely. If you wait for a polite exit, the opportunity will rarely arise, because it relies upon the other having your sense of politeness. A simple, "Excuse me, but I have to go," should work OK.

    Reversing this, the Fe user's polite inquiry sounds offensive to the Fi user. If we wanted to talk about our feelings, we'd be talking about them already, and now we have to figure out how to refuse the inquiry. (You wonder why a "no" doesn't suffice? There is something about "Fe" language that seems to be heard in Fi terms that "no" isn't an acceptable answer, that the Fe user would be offended by the "no.")

    The best way to address this is just to recognize the signs, rather than give in to the annoyance factor. If you're Fe, and you hear an Fi person spout out about feelings, translate it into Fe speak, where the Fi user is asking how you feel about the topic, implicitly. It's just bass-ackwardsly saying how they feel first. And feel free to just say what you feel, and don't be obliged to inquire. If you're Fi, don't treat a question as to how you feel as being nosy. The proper way to say "no" is "I'm doing fine, thank you for asking." If the topic isn't too private, and you feel comfortable opening up, do so. After the topic has been about you and your feelings for 2 or 3 rounds, ask about their feelings. E.g., simply ask "What's you're opinion on the matter?" Remember that they need your permission to tell you what they really think. They won't just up and say it like you normally would.

  6. #276
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    9,347

    Default

    If it's obvious to the Fe user that something's wrong, but the Fi person doesn't want to talk about it, it's okay to say, "I just need a little time to sort out my thoughts on my own". If the Fe user persists (because that is polite in our world and assures the person that we really do care and are not just asking a perfunctory question), then it's alright to thank them for their conern and assure them that they can be very helpful just by giving some time/space. Often the Fe user is just trying to express that their care for the other person or be proactively helpful. They feel rejected or useless when they can't do anything to help. By offering them something that they can do (give space), they will much more quickly leave the Fi user alone and not feel hurt in the same way!

  7. #277
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,079

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I have a feeling that perhaps some INFP issues with INFJs may be different than ENFP ones with INFJs. Do you think that's true, or not? I think INFJs would like to reciprocally understand and respond to other people's Big Deals. I'm just not sure how to get you to verbalize them so that I can better understand them without seeming intrusive.

    I do know that one of the big things is making you feel accepted for who you are first without making the person feel that that continued acceptance is based on becoming what they could be or taking the advice given. In the absence of having any practical ways to help a person who seems "stuck", we get discouraged and start feeling like the person is not looking for solutions without understanding what else is going on. Do you have any practical suggestions for coming to a better understanding of the situation without putting pressure on the person.
    Well, I may not be the best INFP to ask; I don't feel representative of the INFP population.. keep in mind I am group-oriented, SO dom, 9w1. For me it's all about the harmony, and my life experience as well has shaped a particular POV oriented to align my Fi values with an Fe perspective.

    So with that disclaimer in place:

    I think Fi has a hard time expressing itself. Words almost seem insufficient to do the feelings justice. Just as you sometimes decide that conflict is just not worth entering into, I often give up trying to verbally construct the dynamic of feelings that I am currently reflecting on. It just ... comes out wrong. When faced with a great deal of emotional intensity, I have to try a bunch of times to have a hope of even being close to getting it "right".

    And sometimes, it just comes out bad, which upsets people, because Fi doesn't always verbalize in a politically-correct way, and instead of people realizing they're hearing a rough draft, they assume this is the final copy. So people get upset, and then I have to deal with them being upset, instead when I'm upset ... you see the pattern.

    If you truly want to overcome any INFP communication issues, as advice, I would suggest trying to listen and simply empathize rather than try to fix or sympathize. Until the intensity of Fi expression has passed ... don't take anything at face value, don't critique it, don't offer suggestions ... just hear it. Nod your head, pat a hand, give Fi some space.

    Most Fi users will then be able to work through their own solutions from that space. At that point, where the Fi user is clearly engaging Te, trying to fix their own stuff, your suggestions are hugely embraced and eagerly contemplated. Ne welcomes that variety of possibilities for solutions, gets excited at the prospect of "light at the end of the tunnel" and can swing back to optimistic implementation.

    Using the lovely "light" metaphor earlier in thread, if you try to change our colour, prematurely influence our colour, we will not truly feel valued or listened to. You do not know what is best for us, and since we don't generally assume to know what is best for you, it is presumptuous to think you would know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This works well on INFJs too. We're pretty good as listening to other people and I've often found that Fi users will talk and talk to me. However, there often doesn't seem to be that question asking shift where they say, "Now, how about you?" and start asking questions. I feel rude breaking in and just talking about myself, particularly if I'm not sure the other person is all that interested (again that thing about wanting to be sure we're really welcome and that the other person WANTS to understand us rather than is just humouring us.)
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I've noticed this as well. I often think Fi users want me to want to share voluntarily, without being prompted, whereas I would prefer being prompted so that I know they want to know.
    LOL, I have the same complaint. I listen so much, and often wonder "when do I get my turn...?"

    When Fi users talk and talk to you, it's usually because we've been wandering in the desert, listening to lots of other people, and waiting for our turn to have a drink too, we are parched and thirsty ...

    But you know what's kind of sad ... we know we are over-sharing in these situations, but it just feels good to be listened to for a change. Generally I will sense I am boring someone or their patience or attention-span is drying up, so I switch it over to talk about you. But, for those moments, it feels good.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes, Fi users want you to share voluntarily. To translate into Fe terms, if Fi breaches the topic of one's own feelings, then implicit permission is given to you to divulge your own feelings, especially as related (by topic matter) to what the Fi user reveals.
    Agreed.

    Think of it in terms of Fi precision: in Fi terms, there is no adequate question that can be asked. To Fi, "How are you?" is merely another form of "Hello" and not a "real question," because experience proves that most people who express an interest in how we feel don't want the "real answer." So to Fi, there is no good question and no good answer, so it's best to just say how one feels if one feels moved to do so.
    Agreed.

    You might wonder how to "cut off" someone from endlessly nattering on about their feelings and experiences. The most effective is to simply affirm their feelings and maybe offer a practical solution if one is obvious - but affirming their feelings is enough. Don't try to explain how their feelings are wrong or inappropriate or shouldn't be expressed: this will extend the interaction into even more annoying territory, just say, "Yeah, that really sucks," or whatever is appropriate.
    @bold: Yes, you don't have to agree with them; just acknowledge them is a better word.

    Another way is to divulge your own feelings, should you believe it appropriate to do so, and don't wait for them to ask: the mere fact that they're divulging feelings means the topic is opened, and they'll not be upset should you discuss your own experience.
    Agreed, unless we know we'll just start talking about you again and never get back to "me". This happens ALL.THE.TIME ... IRL.

    A final way is to be more "INTJ" about it, and simply cut off communication, tersely. If you wait for a polite exit, the opportunity will rarely arise, because it relies upon the other having your sense of politeness. A simple, "Excuse me, but I have to go," should work OK.
    Oh my, don't say that. I will already know I am over-staying my welcome, and a nice hug or shoulder-squeeze, a check of the watch and an empathic "I would really love to hear more, and I have enjoyed sharing with you, but I do have to go" warms my heart in a way that "Excuse me, but I have to go" never will. That response would tend to make me feel that I have burdened you with my speaking, and generally will ensure I don't talk much with you in the future. (Although I guess if that's what you want, that's what you'll get.)

    Edit: or, more to the point I will make a mental note: I can talk to uumlau about topic X for approximately 4 minutes until he starts to fidget, shift his eyes away from time to time and appear bored, so I will cut it short before we get there next time.

    ---

    The reality is that most people don't want to hear what you really think or feel ... so a special person who truly listens is a valuable commodity.

    uumlau's other suggestions there have merit, but I feel weary all of a sudden to comment on them ... I feel like the dance is a little more complicated than he outlines, but it's a great, insightful post.

    Off to make dinner; I must need some protein.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #278
    Senior Member Array Quiet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    321

    Default



    It would seem from these last couple of posts, that Fi and Fe users, are both trying to be considerate of each other.

    Fi users need somehow to be validated, and feel a sense of rejection of they are not, and Fe users, need to know they were appreciated for having their opinion (attention) matter in the first place... sigh!

    I think those on the extreme ends of the typing can learn a great deal from eachother, and those within a close percentage of the P and J functions, can see both sides.
    "What's Taters, Precious?" --- Gollum.

    "Bring your pretty face, to my axe". --- Gimly.

  9. #279
    Senior Member Array Abstract Thinker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I think Fi has a hard time expressing itself. Words almost seem insufficient to do the feelings justice. Just as you sometimes decide that conflict is just not worth entering into, I often give up trying to verbally construct the dynamic of feelings that I am currently reflecting on.
    This, exactly... at least for me. Very well said.

  10. #280
    Banned Array
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    It has only been recently that I have considered the possibility of this being useful to do (being that direct, I mean) under the right conditions for mutual benefit and coming to a better understanding. If the same had happened in real life, it would not have gone down that way. If I bother to have conflict with someone, it is usually only the people in my very inner circle, or people that I will have to work with (and cannot work around) in my everyday existence (work or roommate).

    As strange as it sounds, I think it actually is a compliment in most cases if an INFJ does think that it is worth trying to have conflict. On the rare occasions where I've done it, it nearly always has resulted in a much closer relationship after and fewer problems. I did this with a boss/coworker once and we have remained very good friends to this day in a way that we wouldn't have been had it not happened. It feels very unnatural to me though. I would more likely play out the possible scenario in my head and decide it just wasn't worth it because of the way that I thought the other person would respond, the unlikelihood of coming to resolution, or ensuing emotional load that I would need to deal with after the fact. I think sometimes that's what bugs people about INFJs. They maybe feel like we write them off too easily or that we just abandon them if they don't do what we want them to.

    Perhaps I should have said it here instead of via rep, but I think it's important to make the distinction between an emotional outburst of anger and someone expressing that there is danger ahead. INFJs really don't like to not be in control of their emotions and in particularly don't like to be publicly not in control of their emotions. In my opinion, it would be unlikely to see an INFJ go off on you unless they felt it was preventing something worse from happening.
    I have always believed (but not always practiced) that it's not that you have conflict, but how you deal with it.

    Conflict is unavoidable or at least inevitable. Especially when people are close.

    It's kind of like your rule of proximity.

    The addition you added to what you said in my rep , The stuff about losing control of emotions and the in public part.. each time a certain point is made

    Hmm.. I have decided Imaginary will explain it better.

    I started out with a single thought on a subject ( a persons behavior) each bit of new information does not cancel out the old information, but rather builds upon it.. each branch a new idea, each new idea adding more information. But each new idea must be compared and sequenced and cannot stand alone. So my thoughts become very confused as the ideas grow and am left feeling something like this


    It's not that I can't handle it, it's just easier to tell a one paragraph story as opposed to a 1200 page book.

    At the same time my confusion grows one way, something emerges from the other direction.
    That looks like this


    As I take in more information I become overwhelmed. but something I don't control eventually starts to filter it, and a picture begins to emerge

    And a picture is worth a 1000 words.

    You have been a great help.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] Common ENFP issues
    By Amargith in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 653
    Last Post: 11-24-2016, 12:16 PM
  2. [INTJ] Common INTJ Issues
    By highlander in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 302
    Last Post: 11-09-2016, 10:42 PM
  3. [ENFJ] Common ENFJ Issues
    By Domino in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 205
    Last Post: 05-08-2016, 03:59 PM
  4. [NF] Common INFP-INFJ Relationship Issues
    By Lenian in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-22-2016, 01:28 PM
  5. [INFJ] UNCOMMON? OR COMMON INFJ ISSUES?!?
    By Lenian in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-31-2011, 05:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO