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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #261
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    EW - Until you step away from what you live and breathe, you aren't really aware of it being there, I think.

    I never really noticed a lot of aspects of where I lived and the culture I came from until I lived outside of it. When I lived in the States, I saw how Canadians and Americans did have slightly different communication styles which would be perceived differently in each of those countries. Different traits were valued more highly and others seen as either too passive or too intrusive. I also was surprised to find that we really have retained some of our British traits, despite the time that has elapsed. When I lived on the reserve, completely different language and communication, behaviours and conventions seeming normal me or to them depending on where we had grown up. If I went into their community, I had to make big adjustments in both my perception and my outgoing communication or I would get into confrontations with students or encounter counterwill in everyplace from the grocery store to the school! If they moved to the city, they had to realize that what was perfectly normal and acceptable where they were would be perceived very differently and that it wasn't always racism. When I lived in Quebec, I discovered that they interacted in a much more familiar and blunt way than I was accustomed to in more reserved English Canada. They were also a lot more able to let loose in some ways. I went to a concert in Eastern Canada where half of the audience was Acadian (French) and the other half were English (mostly visitors "from away"). The French side of the audience hooted and hollered and spoke back to the performers (many of the audience members were the "hometown crowd" or were related). The English side of the audience clapped along with the music, but were comparatively reserved and sedate even though they would have liked to have shown more. The performers noticed and teased them about it! When I encountered a teacher from Quebec out where I was from, he expressed surprise and distaste that people don't directly state the things that bug them about a person in that person's presence. What seemed polite to us seemed like passive-aggressive behaviour to him. When I lived with German roommates, I had to realize that their bluntness was not reflective of more stuff seething inside, which is what it would mean if I said something that directly. For months I avoided spending any time at the house because I thought they hated me!

    I think that all of the functions are like this, in particular the ones that we use most predominantly. It is only when we get put in an environment without what we are most comfortable that we miss it and even identify what it is.
    "We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot - Little Gidding, from Four Quartets

    Fidelia, I agree with you completely. What you said made me think of one of my favorite quotes.... (Esoteric Wench stops and considers that she's doing that Fi thing again with an Fe person.)

    Let me try again with my new found knowledge...

    It sounds like you've had a lot of experience observing different people in different cultures, and that you are very aware of how your British roots will always be a part of you. How interesting that you've traveled so much. It seems that the cross cultural experiences have informed your understanding of MBTI.

    - Esoteric Wench

    PS (It is a great quote though. )
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  2. #262
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    Ohhhhhhh, Fidelia. How wrong can you be? You know nothing of my sincere and earnest efforts to try to understand why such things are a Big Deal to INFJs. Let me ask you if you have made a sincere and earnest effort to understand why I and others would make such statements about INFJs? I’ll elaborate on this one more tomorrow. I’m tired now and have to get some sleep.
    I have a feeling that perhaps some INFP issues with INFJs may be different than ENFP ones with INFJs. Do you think that's true, or not? I think INFJs would like to reciprocally understand and respond to other people's Big Deals. I'm just not sure how to get you to verbalize them so that I can better understand them without seeming intrusive.

    I do know that one of the big things is making you feel accepted for who you are first without making the person feel that that continued acceptance is based on becoming what they could be or taking the advice given. In the absence of having any practical ways to help a person who seems "stuck", we get discouraged and start feeling like the person is not looking for solutions without understanding what else is going on. Do you have any practical suggestions for coming to a better understanding of the situation without putting pressure on the person.

  3. #263
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Oh yeah! Cascadeco - thanks for your response. What are you for enneagram type? Also are you sp first?
    5w4, sp/so. And no problem!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #264
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    "We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot - Little Gidding, from Four Quartets

    Fidelia, I agree with you completely. What you said made me think of one of my favorite quotes.... (Esoteric Wench stops and considers that she's doing that Fi thing again with an Fe person.)

    Let me try again with my new found knowledge...

    It sounds like you've had a lot of experience observing different people in different cultures, and that you are very aware of how your British roots will always be a part of you. How interesting that you've traveled so much. It seems that the cross cultural experiences have informed your understanding of MBTI.

    - Esoteric Wench

    PS (It is a great quote though. )

    You've been great about all this!

    In a case like this where we are mutually agreeing, you don't have to worry about the active listening stuff so much. There's nothing to get stuck on, therefore I don't worry that you are misunderstanding or missing information. I like good quotes too!

    It mostly comes up when there is extreme emotion (happy or sad), stress or conflict where having that information could better help you avoid landmines and make the person feel like you understand.

    Have you checked out Satine's thread? I'm so glad someone did this. I think it should be interesting now to check things out from the opposite point of view!

  5. #265
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    "We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot - Little Gidding, from Four Quartets
    Fidelia, I agree with you completely. What you said made me think of one of my favorite quotes.... (Esoteric Wench stops and considers that she's doing that Fi thing again with an Fe person.)

    Let me try again with my new found knowledge...

    It sounds like you've had a lot of experience observing different people in different cultures, and that you are very aware of how your British roots will always be a part of you. How interesting that you've traveled so much. It seems that the cross cultural experiences have informed your understanding of MBTI.

    - Esoteric Wench

    PS (It is a great quote though. )
    Esoteric Wench,
    Very nice. And I'm admiring what a good sport you are.
    Best regards,
    Tiltyred

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think we're already finding some common ground. I'm not sure why this is perceived as being disrespectful. As PeaceBaby said, something always comes of these kinds of exchanges and it has been completely civil. We have not started name calling, it's solution oriented and the problem, its causes and possible solutions have been discussed.
    People were being curt and short.. I could see tempers starting to fray even if you couldn't.

    That is all.

    I am glad civility rules the day.

  7. #267
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't think I'd continue posting if it got to that. That's about the worst that you'll be likely to ever see out of me. I try to give people lots of warning too, so that they won't be taken unawares.

  8. #268
    Circus Maximus Array Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    The other issue with an SO is that the INFJ can leave their friends for a few days if they get frustrated. They can't do that with you!
    Good point. She does this sometimes.


    Any ideas for what to do about this? Is it helpful to explain what a valuable function you are performing and that it is really mostly emotional noise to determine what matters and what doesn't? Should they try to go elsewhere as much as possible? Does thanking the person for listening make a difference?
    Sure. I think some meta-narrative along the lines of "can I vent for a few minutes? can I ask that you just listen and not get defensive?" would keep me from being blindsided but ultimately it's up to me to have a thicker skin and not get my hackles up.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I don't think I'd continue posting if it got to that. That's about the worst that you'll be likely to ever see out of me. I try to give people lots of warning too, so that they won't be taken unawares.
    If that's your worst, I will have to reconsider my nick name for you.. perhaps Kitten Lady would be more apt than Cat Lady.

  10. #270
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    So, pretty much what EJCC was suggested to do with ESTJs that way. Good to know! I for a long time assumed that everyone vented and so it hadn't occurred to me to give a heads up before because I thought they would naturally know what I was doing! I realize though that it can feel like dodging bullets and if someone gets stuck on a subject and seems over-emotional and unreasonable, it can get pretty wearing. When/about what do you find it hardest to listen?

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