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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #251
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    EW: Mary would express frustration about Bob's behaviour. Margaret would ask what he did. She would then ask a few more questions to clarify, till she feels she understands the situation and Mary is no longer going on and on about it. Usually Mary will invite her opinion. Margaret might say something like, "Well...it might be such and such...or such and such...or such and such. Do any of those sound plausible?" Mary would respond and more questions might ensue or THAT'S when Margaret might share her INTJ experiences. Or the experiences might be shared to look for similarities and differences in situation and motivation.

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    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    EW: Mary would express frustration about Bob's behaviour. Margaret would ask what he did. She would then ask a few more questions to clarify, till she feels she understands the situation and Mary is no longer going on and on about it. Usually Mary will invite her opinion. Margaret might say something like, "Well...it might be such and such...or such and such...or such and such. Do any of those sound plausible?" Mary would respond and more questions might ensue or THAT'S when Margaret might share her INTJ experiences. Or the experiences might be shared to look for similarities and differences in situation and motivation.
    THANK YOU Fidelia! I got it now. Really. That made it all come together for me.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  3. #253
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ What you are describing is called "Active Listening".

    Interestingly it works as well for Fe as it does for Fi; Fe will share the nuanced details when they are the receiver of Active Listening and Fi will share the emotions in greater detail until both Fe and Fi come to a place that is more like self-processing.

    When done effectively, both will feel like they have been "heard".

    Active listening - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A great resource that I like, really distills the whole process easily for anyone to utilize, is Stephen Covey's "7 Habits of Highly Successful People."
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #254
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    Ho boy. This is a big one, and caused me some hurt initially. It definitely feels unfair and that her friends get a pass on actions or words that she gets her back up with me over. Her friends are like gold to her and she'd move heaven or earth for them, so they seem as important as I do from my perspective, but we're clearly judged on different scorecards. Theirs is more lenient and forgiving, mine is eyed more critically.
    Even though I'd do a lot for my friends, if I've chosen to be with you, chances are that you are WAY the most important person in my life. A person with a detailed scorecard also has a reciprocally higher amount of perks or regard in the INFJs' eyes.

    The other issue with an SO is that the INFJ can leave their friends for a few days if they get frustrated. They can't do that with you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus
    Yep. Seemingly oblivious that someone might be offended/hurt if they don't follow up communication in the rhythm that's been established over time in the relationship. Communication can go to zero and they seem oblivious or confused that this would be received poorly when it's pointed out to them. Yet conversely they can get wounded by much shorter gaps in communication due to a project or some other life situation.
    I don't think they are completely oblivious to it, although it certainly can seem that way. In fact, it is the guilt and the extreme care they want to put into the task (because the person matters) which paralyzes them. The more voluminous and meaningful the communication, the more emotional energy is expended. If they are low on that because of other stressors, too little downtime, or something that they still have not gotten figured out and so can't share yet, they are likely to put the task off and then feel even more guilt and embarrassment. They should really just shoot over an email to explain why they've been quiet and it might help. [Actually, maybe this is just my own experience. I shouldn't speak for others.] I agree though that they themselves get all twitchy and nervous if they don't hear from someone because no news is usually perceived as bad news [it's the emotional surprises thing again - they don't want to be taken off guard or have missed something that they should have paid attention to]. It can seem rather self-centred and hypocritical though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus
    I've been guilty of not letting her vent, or taking it personally. Something I need to work on for sure. At least I don't make the typically male mistake of trying to "fix" the problem.
    Any ideas for what to do about this? Is it helpful to explain what a valuable function you are performing and that it is really mostly emotional noise to determine what matters and what doesn't? Should they try to go elsewhere as much as possible? Does thanking the person for listening make a difference?

  5. #255
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ What you are describing is called Active Listening".[/url]
    Ouch. That hurt. Because I consider myself a great communicator. And, I usually am. But apparently, I have a blind spot I didn't even know about.

    Even weirder is that I've been formally trained in active listening techniques.

    Nonetheless, I reluctantly admit that Peacebaby is correct.

    I guess both ways are valid. But I never would have applied the Fe-way outside of certain settings I was trained to use it in.

    And, what I've come to understand today, is that my Fi way was so fundamental to who I was, it never even occurred to me that there was another way of doing it.

    Excellent. I can't wait to try it out on my Fe friends and see what they do.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  6. #256
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Here's a small excerpt from your interaction previously.

    Originally Posted by fidelia
    You obviously have not taken time to understand why some of those things are a Big Deal. More effective would be explaining why what they are doing isn't always effective, give some specific examples and then leave it to them to mull.
    Ohhhhhhh, Fidelia. How wrong can you be? You know nothing of my sincere and earnest efforts to try to understand why such things are a Big Deal to INFJs. Let me ask you if you have made a sincere and earnest effort to understand why I and others would make such statements about INFJs? I’ll elaborate on this one more tomorrow. I’m tired now and have to get some sleep.

    First, I will process EW's response in a way that would have been more facilitative to "open up" fidelia:

    "Fidelia, thanks for your thoughts. What I hear you saying is that you feel I really haven't made an effort to understand your point of view. And that I haven't taken the necessary steps to appreciate why things that don't seem as important to me feel like a Big Deal to you. Is that right?"
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #257
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    EW - Until you step away from what you live and breathe, you aren't really aware of it being there, I think.

    I never really noticed a lot of aspects of where I lived and the culture I came from until I lived outside of it. When I lived in the States, I saw how Canadians and Americans did have slightly different communication styles which would be perceived differently in each of those countries. Different traits were valued more highly and others seen as either too passive or too intrusive. I also was surprised to find that we really have retained some of our British traits, despite the time that has elapsed. When I lived on the reserve, completely different language and communication, behaviours and conventions seeming normal me or to them depending on where we had grown up. If I went into their community, I had to make big adjustments in both my perception and my outgoing communication or I would get into confrontations with students or encounter counterwill in everyplace from the grocery store to the school! If they moved to the city, they had to realize that what was perfectly normal and acceptable where they were would be perceived very differently and that it wasn't always racism. When I lived in Quebec, I discovered that they interacted in a much more familiar and blunt way than I was accustomed to in more reserved English Canada. They were also a lot more able to let loose in some ways. I went to a concert in Eastern Canada where half of the audience was Acadian (French) and the other half were English (mostly visitors "from away"). The French side of the audience hooted and hollered and spoke back to the performers (many of the audience members were the "hometown crowd" or were related). The English side of the audience clapped along with the music, but were comparitively reserved and sedate even though they would have liked to have shown more. The performers noticed and teased them about it! When I encountered a teacher from Quebec out where I was from, he expressed surprise and distaste that people don't directly state the things that bug them about a person in that person's presence. What seemed polite to us seemed like passive-agressive behaviour to him. When I lived with German roommates, I had to realize that their bluntness was not reflective of more stuff seething inside, which is what it would mean if I said something that directly. For months I avoided spending any time at the house because I thought they hated me!

    I think that all of the functions are like this, in particular the ones that we use most predominantly. It is only when we get put in an environment without what we are most comfortable that we miss it and even identify what it is.

  8. #258
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Ouch. That hurt. Because I consider myself a great communicator. And, I usually am. But apparently, I have a blind spot I didn't even know about.

    Even weirder is that I've been formally trained in active listening techniques.
    Me too, and I forget to use it too, sometimes. It seems more ... foreign? to use it in writing than in speech.

    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #259
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Ouch. That hurt. Because I consider myself a great communicator. And, I usually am. But apparently, I have a blind spot I didn't even know about.

    Even weirder is that I've been formally trained in active listening techniques.

    Nonetheless, I reluctantly admit that Peacebaby is correct.

    I guess both ways are valid. But I never would have applied the Fe-way outside of certain settings I was trained to use it in.

    And, what I've come to understand today, is that my Fi way was so fundamental to who I was, it never even occurred to me that there was another way of doing it.

    Excellent. I can't wait to try it out on my Fe friends and see what they do.

    I do think some of the ways that they train you to actively listen feel a little forced and unnatural, so I can understand why it might feel kind of odd using it in an informal environment. I think though the principle is worth bearing in mind with most Fe types. I'll be curious to see what findings your experments yield!

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    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Oh yeah! Cascadeco - thanks for your response. What are you for enneagram type? Also are you sp first?

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