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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #231
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    (Esoteric is a beautiful example of a mature well balanced ENFP who can use both Fi and Te effectively)
    I literally blushed when I read this. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Fi seeks an affirmation that it is okay to have a feeling, then seeks a Te solution. Your frustration could be you really want to explore the Fe subtleties of the problem-which may sound like you are repeating the same issue again and again to the Fe-blind. I would think "Hmmm, yes, I know you feel this way..okay what Te action items can we implement to prevent this from happening again?" We dont need to keep rehashing the emo over and over again.
    Now this was very interesting. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but it rings true to me. That is how it sounds to me... like the same things are being said over and over. I've gotta tell you, I have the HARDEST time understanding Fe. If anyone can elaborate on this one, I'd love to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Do INFJs really protect the aux function? ENFPs most certainly do protect Fi. But Fe is how they interact with the world-like we use Te or Ne. INFJs are you really more protective of Ni perhaps? This is a question, not an assertion.

    Orobas, I think you might be right on this. I think they protect Ni. Hmmm....

    I think you are seeing a clash between Te and Fe some in this thread via tone. We cannot see the unspoken Fe, and they read in unspoken things to our Te.
    OK, now I know you're right. This makes more sense than Ti versus Te. It's Fe versus Te. And, man they're trying to kick each other's *ss in this thread.

    Very insightful Orobas. I always enjoy your posts.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Yes, Fe users are repeating the same issue over and over. We're waiting until you acknowledge that we've said what we did and then responded in some way to either discount something, include more information, ask a question, make an objection or agree. Then, we'll happily get on with solving things TOGETHER with you. Not acknowledging this seems very disrespectful and we feel like you don't understand what it is that you're trying to solve.

    Te on the other hand says in the head of the receiver, "Yeah, I GET it. You don't have to hit me over the head. Now, why can't you see that I've got a good solution right here? Why are we going around and around and around with this?"

    I think there's even a lot of room for your point of view, if you realize that we are looking for expanded information to explain your perspective when we state the problem that we are having with it. Not acknowledging that seems more like you're trying to push your own agenda, but are not willing to give us enough information to see you in a better light or to explain your position.

  3. #233
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Then if this thread is for explaining INFJ's "language" to others, then it is inappropriate to express frustration when others don't immediately understand. Yes, teachers always complain about their students, and can have some pretty funny stories about them, too, BUT they don't express those opinions TO the students WHILE teaching. (It is of course OK to rebuke abusive or unproductive discourse, but that should never be done out of the feeling of frustration.)

    In fact, teachers end up learning more than their erstwhile students, precisely because they need to understand where the student is coming from in order to best present the material in a way the student can understand. When I was teaching physics, I eventually learned to teach two versions, one for my "S" students and one for my "N" students. For my "N" students, I'd use analogies and explain how things work together. For my "S" students, I'd show an example problem and the steps how to solve it. If I left out the former, my "N" students would do badly, because they wouldn't understand how everything related to each other. If I left out the latter, my "S" students would do badly, because wouldn't know what details needed to be handled.

    So even when the final goal is to get others to hear and understand you, the first step is to hear and understand them.
    Here's the thing, umlauu - I have never said that I'm a teacher of all things INFJ and offered to explain the mysteries of us to everyone. All I've done is said, "Hey, if you would like to peek into the window to see what the living room of my mind looks like, here it is. INFJs, do your living rooms look similar or quite different? Here's what I've noticed other people sometimes find odd about our living rooms. If you're wondering what that thing over there does, this why I've got it there. Hey everyone else, do your INFJ people organize their living rooms like mine or differently? Is there anything that looks similar that you have questions about? Did you know that couch over there is actually a hide-a-bed"? etc etc. I'm not teaching people so much as comparing experiences and perhaps explaining the odd thing in my "living room" and why I find it useful or that a lot of people tend to stub their toe on something in there and I'm working on moving it to a different area of the room.

    The problem here is that Te makes it feel like someone has not just peeked through the window, but actually walked in and started taking the cushion covers off and telling me why my colour scheme is all wrong and that I need completely different furniture and then feels bad when I say, "I wouldn't do that if I were you." When I finally tell them to get out, onlookers say, "But she was just trying to make your living room nicer." That's true, but that is something that I will invite an interior decorator of my choice to do for me.

    I find that INTJs sometimes do this as well, although perhaps for different reasons than ENFPs might. I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable, but I remember two cases where usehername started trying to implement Te improvements unbidden and she got jumped on. I felt badly for her (one was in a blog, the other in the bonfire) as her intentions were not bad. It was mostly ENTPs that were reacting, but I think it was again an example of this Fi-Te vs Fe/Ti way of going about things. The reason I mention it is that I found it extremely instructive and useful as an onlooker to see how those bits of conflict came about.

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    The bolded part I understand very well. My relationship has been a huge learning process for me and one of the most surprising things is that what seems natural and normal to me is completely foreign to him and vice versa. I was totally caught by surprise when my INFP said to me, "I appreciate your concern, but you don't have to fix everything. It's all right to be sad."

    I realize there is a huge gap in our understanding. Like I've said somewhere before, I feel that INFPs are like a mirror image of myself. I can recognize myself in you, and we can see that we are so similar, but my right is your left, my left is your right. This makes the dance much harder than it looks in the first place.

    So as not to stray too far from the topic, I will stick to what Fe (at least for INFJs) does and why Fe relationships end. The basic thing is: Fe needs that constant exchanging of emotional energy, or it shrivels and dies.

    Because of its merging nature, Fe needs constant communication. Like a river, it comes from somewhere, and it goes somewhere. Everyone's feelings are connected. Also like a river, when it goes to dry land, it tries to work its way through, to moisten it. Its perfect vision is to bring life to it, and little by little the grass grows, and a forest grows, and the dry land is not dry anymore. Finally, with a forest there, it rains. The rain fills the river and the river can continue to flow more to the land. On the other hand, if the river perceives that there is no hope for the land, meaning that the grass won't grow, and whatever effort it puts in seem to go through the cracks in the ground and disappears, it gets disheartened. If this persists for a long time it dries up for good.

    Fi is like a deep well. We truly admire the fact that your feelings are pure and true and, at least compared to ours, unaffected by the environment. We truly admire that Fi love can hang on for years and years and years even when there is no hope. There doesn't have to be rainfall to replenish it. However, coming from our perspective, we don't know what is there in your deep well. In the end, we don't even know if there is water in there. This, together with the changing nature of Fi -- you want one thing one moment and another thing the next -- scares us. We have no idea what you are thinking about, what you want, what you are really like inside. Sometimes we feel like we don't really know you. Who is it that comes out once in a while with all those wonderful qualities, deep, caring, sensitive? Is it the same person as the one who shuts us out without warning and leaves us in the dark? When we perceive no consistency, we cannot be sure that what we have is really good. We can't even be sure about what we have at all. This scares us to the core and as time goes on we are convinced that it will not work.

    Going back to the light analogy, if we cannot keep the 'us beam' blue, or whatever color we both have decided is good for us (which, with INFPs, most of the time we have not even decided on the color we want in the first place -- and most likely we will decide for you, because we cannot NOT focus on a color, and which you might not like), we get confused, we panic, we feel like we are doing something wrong. We feel like a failure and that it's our fault that we cannot make you happy. Then we despair. Over all this time, with all the effort, all the caring, we feel unappreciated, unloved.

    This is why good communication is the key. Give us something. We need a sense of direction. Sometimes it helps to be able to tell us objectively what it is all about. Let us know there is water in the well even when we cannot see it, and that it will not dry overnight. A river flows constantly. The only time it doesn't is when it gives up. For us, when we don't feel the water, we think you have given up, and we try to figure out what we have done wrong to make you withdraw your love so easily.

    The thing is, we need the very thing that might feel intrusive to you. We are reassured when you let us in on your problems, when you tell us what you want from us. Explaining to us how you don't need for something to be a certain way helps a lot more than you think. When you feel we are intruding, tell us.

    The difference between J and P is that being a J, we want at least one color on the wall that we can work towards. You, on the other hand, don't mind if it keeps changing. We feel that the changing colors are too confusing, because we orient ourselves to the color we see on the wall. Too much change and we feel like we are constantly being tossed around in a whirlwind and we feel very uneasy and restless. For you, one color seems too constricting. You feel trapped, caged. The whole thing feels forced. At the very core, I think the only way for an Fe/Fi relationship to work out is to be able to find that balance, that middle-ground between stillness and movement. Find a range of shades you can both live with and within that range let the colors shift.

    So, you need a whole lot of adjustments on both sides. Communication is everything. So far, in this relationship, sometimes the only way I can get through to him is to drop all my defenses and lay bare my soul for him to see. It takes a lot of courage, as I become completely vulnerable. But that's my leap of faith -- faith that he will catch me and not let me fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    21% your posts are amazingly beautiful.
    ^^^^^
    Yes they are. I've noticed this, too. There is an artistic quality to them. So they are both unique and profound.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  5. #235
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Now this was very interesting. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but it rings true to me. That is how it sounds to me... like the same things are being said over and over. I've gotta tell you, I have the HARDEST time understanding Fe. If anyone can elaborate on this one, I'd love to hear it.
    The main thing to note is that the "e" and "i" functions "sound the same" to their opposites, but are distinctly not the same.

    Fe and Te sound exactly alike, much of the time. They're about dealing with other people. They're the basis by which you judge your interactions. Te demands that the interactions be functional (accomplish an objective goal), while Fe demands that they be smooth (i.e., work with people). There is a lot of commonality. Fe isn't stupid, and Te isn't "heartless": they're just priorities, and the priorities can often be the same. E.g., both understand money management, and both understand how political considerations can get in the way. The differences is what they work with.

    For Te, the politics are the boundary condition, while the money management (or other objective concern) is what they work with. For Fe, the money is the boundary condition, and the politics is what they work with. (Yes, this is a very, very, very broad brush.) I can "play" with logistics without having to think very hard. I can understand politics, but I don't know how to play it. The reverse is true for Fe: Fe can understand logistical constraints, but is better at adjusting people to logistics than adjusting logistics to people, if that makes sense.

    So, because of this "sounds the same" problem, there is a LOT of cross talk possible. I can be talking of something completely objective in a Te way, and Fe can hear all sorts of Fe style implications that simply aren't there (because I'm juggling things, not people, in my head).

    However, I can "sort of" get Fe, if I let my mind go, think in "Ni", and instead of mapping over to Te (which is instinctive) I map to Fe. This works better dealing with 20/20 hindsight, I can reinterpret in Fe terms. It works badly in real time, because Ni normally needs a lot of time to interpret.

    In your ENFP case, I suspect it might be easier to switch from Fi to Fe (as I can also go from Te to Ti). Another way to put it is to react with your Fi to the Fe, and keep Te out of the picture. Fi will feel like the Fe is a bit overbearing, but if you keep your heart open and give others the benefit of the doubt, the Fe side should be able to read that. It won't be easy (it's outside of your comfort zone), but that's kind of the point, right?

  6. #236
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
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    My living room:

    1)Delayed processing time - INFJs often seem to be basing their responses to the person in question on the last interaction they had with them, more often than the current one. They prefer to have time to think things over, which is why it's not a great idea to try to push an INFJ into making a decision before they feel they have had enough time to mull everything that has been brought up.
    Not much to add. I don't do terribly well in real-time-resolution or interaction/discussion of interpersonal issues/conflict. I need time apart to 1)Figure out what the hell my thoughts ARE, and analyze/sort through them, 2) Figure out my feelings, as they might be jumbled up/contradictory, 3)Unravel my perceptions to assess whether they're 'justified' or not, &etc. I also dislike, and am physically unable to, much of the time, hashing things out before I've thought through all of it, because I don't want to be premature in my assessments. I don't like backtracking, and I also really don't like showing a totally momentary feeling that I know will very likely change in an hour or two.

    2) Need for resolution - What may look to some like being nitpicky or unforgiving or even holding onto the past often has more to do with their need to get everything put away in it's proper place before closing the chapter on it. Without doing so, it keeps coming up again and again.
    Not sure about this. All I know is that yes, I'm very closure-oriented, and very much need people to be on the same page. I actually don't like holding onto things in the past, though. It feels like a dead weight. I like moving forward.

    3) Considering every hobby, person or idea expressed as an extension of themselves - INFJs tend to be very self-protective, and rarely bring something up unless they have already implemented it into their main framework of thought or affection. Therefore when any of these things are dismissed or mocked, they will feel it as a personal rejection, unlike someone who tends to verbalize new ideas out loud. Similarly, INFJs will sometimes be confused by someone who seemed committed to a thought or a plan, only to abandon it later.
    I can't say I relate so much to being personally upset/offended/hurt if someone rejects, say, a musician I like, or whatever. That sort of thing doesn't bother me, as I am aware things of that nature are highly subjective - just as I might really loathe a type of music someone else loves, I expect the same in turn.

    More directly related to what you wrote though, pretty much anything I say is something I've put a lot of thought into. So I'm not one who brainstorms stuff or says something one day and a week later sings a different tune. That can confuse me from others, but I've learned certain types are very much the opposite of me in this regard.


    4) Dislike of emotional surprises - this leads INFJs to sometimes inconvenience others in their effort to know what to expect. I'm fine with a change of plans, but find it harder to quickly adjust to someone's sudden annoyance, to a change in something I had really been hoping for/counting on etc. Makes me more likely to try to be the one to take on any inconvenience because that is more predictable. I also tend to need to watch a situation for awhile (either social or skillwise) before I am comfortable jumping in. I think with maturity we can become less focussed on their own reactions and feelings and also realize that someone else being upset is not the very worst that can happen. Sometimes avoiding that happening actually creates more conflict.
    Relate to elements of this; not sure it's super extreme for me though.

    5) Hold those close to them to a higher degree of accountability than those that are less important to them - This may seem judgemental and unfair, but because those close to them are an extension of their own self, integrity is paramount to them and they choose to invest heavily in a few close relationships, they expect more of those people than they do of casual acquaintance friends. When they feel you are worth risking conflict with and you start hearing the negatives about yourself as well as the positives, you're in!
    Think this is true. I only invest in those I really value/trust/like, and I suppose my 'standards' for who I want in my life, on a deep & meaningful & continuous/longterm level0 are somewhat high. So what I might let slide with random people -- by the very fact that I am *not* emotionally/socially invested in them -- I would not let slide with those closer to me.

    6) Easily embarrassed and quite private - May mean that they take awhile before talking about something that is painful to them. This doesn't mean they don't care about the support you could give them. It's just that they need to get it thought out in a framework and untangled before they are ready to be more open. I tend to talk about it more after I think I'm going to be alright.
    Yeah, true.

    7) Long gaps in correspondance or putting off a job that matters a lot - This seems to be linked to wanting to do an excellent job of it and feeling overwhelmed by the amount of time or effort or organization required. The longer it is put off, the worse we feel. As a result, it is usually my most valued friends that I correspond with least. Usually I try to overcome this by phoning them, catching up on the bulk of it, and then writing the rest.
    Don't exactly relate. Honestly the 'wanting to do an excellent job' piece might be more strongly correlated to enneagram.

    As for putting off things that 'matter', not sure. I do know that the way I operate/approach things means that I might appear to be doing a whole lot of nothing for a while, even though in my mind I'm subconsciously letting things percolate/unfold so as to figure out the optimal way of doing it. Then when I actually go for it I'm totally productive and get it done really quickly.

    I tend to procrastinate on really chore-like things that I hate/resent doing - getting a drivers license renewed, running errands, and the like.

    I am guilty of gaps in correspondence, though. I attribute this to my sense of time being weirdly off; also, the fact that the nature of my close friendships is such that we don't need to touch base super regularly, nor do I view it as a 'sign' that I don't still care for them - neither takes it personally. We catch up immediately where we left off.

    8) Not creating clear enough boundaries for people around them - there's a tendancy to respond to those who are most actively demanding attention, especially when younger. Also the need to be sure that they've looked at everything from all angles, made a correct assessment of all possible motivations and exhausted what they can do to impact the situation before really drawing a hard and fast line. I think this improves with age.
    Relate to the bolded; not sure I would have tied it to boundaries, but I'll have to think about that a bit more.

    9) Find it difficult to assess when is the time to make a Big Deal out of something - Their reaction to something really depends on the other person's response. They may find it easy to forgive something or deal with it on their own if the person recognizes that they are making a concession. If the person trivializes or continues on with more of the same behaviour, it's the last straw (in a very big load of straws!) and the other examples of where they have seen the same behaviour will be brought up.
    Relate.

    10) Hate being not in control of their emotions, yet sometimes underestimate how strong those emotions are till they are swamped by them. - (Note, not a good time for Ts to talk about how over-sensitive and emotional they are, as they despise being that way and are already terribly embarrassed).
    I think I am a slightly different breed of INFJ when it comes to this; I've never been told by anyone that I am overly sensitive and emotional. I also rarely emote anything, and work all/much of it in-house, only liking to talk about stuff when I'm NOT emotionally overwhelmed. (However, one of my good INFJ friends has been told such, and self-proclaims it) Perhaps this is more enneagram-based too.

    11) Get less receptive to advice if the other person tries to skip over the venting that they need to do in order to bleed off excess emotion or when they feel the person hasn't taken enough time to understand the situation. Often their solutions are gained primarily from discussion with someone, not from getting the answers from someone.
    Well, I may disregard the other persons' 'solution' if I feel they don't fully understand the situation.

    Not sure about 'venting' element. See #10.

    12) Sometimes have a hard time recognizing when they need to pull back or give less so that they can continue doing so cheerfully. This seems to be the case especially with Ts.
    Not sure. I think this was more of an issue in my early 20's. Also probably more of an issue in romantic relationships, in general.

    13) Tendancy to be poor with paperwork, locating items quickly under pressure - I've largely solved this by having a big lanyard for my keys, carrying a decent sized purse and having a file folder that things go into immediately.
    In general I can't relate. My INFJ friend though is very much this way -- she deals with it by being insanely externally organized.

    14) Am a responder more than an initiator - as a result I've missed out on many good friendships. I've learned that people respond much more warmly when you go out on a limb and make the first move. I've been working to actively improve this.


    15) Not good at paying attention to detail (in my environment, and in instructions) - This is why I try to stock a lot of sensors in my life. They are happy to fill in my gaps and give me reminders when needed. They also tend to think in terms of smaller practical details that must be attented to.
    I like to think of it as: I pay attention to the details that *matter*.

    16) My intimidation by Te, and some oversensitivity leads me to sometimes not express my opinions when I should - working on this one. Thinking it out ahead of time helps.
    Not sure this is the case for me. I get along pretty darn well with xNTJ's irl.

    17) Over-indulgent when under stress - eat bad food and buy make-up/magazines that I don't need - Am working to replace these responses with exercise, drinking water etc.
    Am opposite -- I don't allow myself to overindulge because I know it's just a product of the stress.

    18) Put off jobs that are unpleasant or that I am not sure how to do - I'm sure this isn't totally type related, but I think avoidance is a greater tendancy with INFJs than Te driven people. Sometimes Ni and Ti create a loop that doesn't work well.
    Definitely.

    19) Stubborn - I tend to need a lot of convincing with a new idea before I will adopt it, because it involves changing the whole structure over again.
    Given the nature of how I work, it's not really possible for me to change an idea on a whim.

    20) Promising more than I can actually deliver - I want so badly to take care of everything that sometimes I overestimate what I am able to do. I've learned as a teacher to promise less and make sure I actually do it every time.
    No, I don't really experience this. I tend not to say anything unless I'm absolutely certain I'll be able to do it.

    21) Lazy about figuring out technological stuff or leave it to others - This one probably isn't INFJ related. I usually wish that some nice ENTP or ESTP is around to give me the Cliff's Notes on something new. While I am very curious about some things, I am not interested in discovering something for myself because I enjoy the process.
    Yeah, don't know that it's INFJ related, but I can relate. I can be lazy with stuff I don't really care about.

    22) Sometimes my very closest friends may feel that I disagree with them but don't express it. That is occasionally true, but if it is not a huge issue of integrity, I'm not sure how expressing it would be helpful. And yet, I don't think that I have to change my mind about it either, as long as I still like and respect them and am not being passive-aggressive. I think INFPs are much better friends in this respect.
    I guess I'm one who isn't out to convince people of my own beliefs/ideas/thoughts. If I know I disagree with someone, if I know I'm not going to change my mind, if I know *they* aren't going to change their mind or see things differently, then I really see no point, in many instances, in pointing that out.

    I'm wondering if any of these traits are influences by enneagram (1w2 so/sx) or if they fit with other INFJ's experiences (or those of other types with INFJs). Oh yeah - and did I mention long-windedness? ...
    I think there were a few of the above that are more directly related to enneagram than mbti, but it's still interesting.
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  7. #237
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Here's the thing, umlauu - I have never said that I'm a teacher of all things INFJ and offered to explain the mysteries of us to everyone. All I've done is said, "Hey, if you would like to peek into the window to see what the living room of my mind looks like, here it is. INFJs, do your living rooms look similar or quite different? Here's what I've noticed other people sometimes find odd about our living rooms. If you're wondering what that thing over there does, this why I've got it there. Hey everyone else, do your INFJ people organize their living rooms like mine or differently? Is there anything that looks similar that you have questions about? Did you know that couch over there is actually a hide-a-bed"? etc etc. I'm not teaching people so much as comparing experiences and perhaps explaining the odd thing in my "living room" and why I find it useful or that a lot of people tend to stub their toe on something in there and I'm working on moving it to a different area of the room.

    The problem here is that Te makes it feel like someone has not just peeked through the window, but actually walked in and started taking the cushion covers off and telling me why my colour scheme is all wrong and that I need completely different furniture and then feels bad when I say, "I wouldn't do that if I were you." When I finally tell them to get out, onlookers say, "But she was just trying to make your living room nicer." That's true, but that is something that I will invite an interior decorator of my choice to do for me.
    Perhaps it feels invasive because you're inviting people into your personal space, and getting upset when they don't conform to your expectations. It's almost INTJ-ish.

    The one spot where I see analogy failing is that what you're hearing is that the color scheme is wrong, but what is being said is that the traffic flow is being impeded. Your visitor doesn't even SEE the cushions or covers, but instead sees a freeway with trucks and cars, and they look at you weird when you mention the seat cushions.

    I find that INTJs sometimes do this as well, although perhaps for different reasons than ENFPs might. I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable, but I remember two cases where usehername started trying to implement Te improvements unbidden and she got jumped on. I felt badly for her (one was in a blog, the other in the bonfire) as her intentions were not bad. It was mostly ENTPs that were reacting, but I think it was again an example of this Fi-Te vs Fe/Ti way of going about things. The reason I mention it is that I found it extremely instructive and useful as an onlooker to see how those bits of conflict came about.
    Yeah, I can see that. The trick, I think, is to figure out what THEY are seeing, not what they're saying. If you know what they see, their words will make a lot more sense. It isn't that they're speaking a different language, but that they're using the same words in a different way.

  8. #238
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    It felt like I wasn't being heard or acknowledged, which is the first step to getting an INFJ to respond positively. With each subsequent time it came up, I got shorter and shorter to be sure that the point wasn't missed. You were seeing the point, but were trying to work on a solution. For me, it would require discussing what exactly the problem was first (making sure that we both were seeing the same thing and that nothing important had been missed - it appeared to me like you were missing information but wanting to get on with the solution prematurely). Anyway, as uncomfortable as that probably was for you, I am glad that it happened.
    First of all, I really appreciate this post, Fidelia. And it's going to take a while for me to process everything, too.

    The part that I highlighted in blue is what really struck me as profound. I'm still struggling with why this was so, but I think you got it right.

    If we can figure out together why this happened, maybe it will enlighten everyone who reads this thread about their misunderstandings with INFJs... which, as you pointed out, was the very purpose of this thread.

    If found this very interesting:

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Interestingly enough, as I read your post today, I didn't find myself digging in my heels in the same way. Your approach was somewhat different and therefore your message was something I became more interested in hearing.
    I guess the question I have is why did you not find yourself digging in your heels? Because I wasn't consciously changing my approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'm guessing that if there were to be a problem in reverse, it would mostly stem from those occasions where the ENFP felt the INFJ was not accepting them for who they are. Until that feeling was in place, they similarly would not feel much progress being made in a discussion. Is this right? (Hence our talk yesterday of INFJs needing to change their perception).
    Yes. This is right. I smiled broadly when I read that.... Now here's what's going to sound like a really dumb question:

    How did you figure this out? In other words, I don't even understand fully why this is so. So please tell me if some of this stuff about the different cognitive functions shed light on this. (I'm trying to read it all, but it's going to take me a while to absorb it so it may have gotten lost in the flotsam and jetsam of this thread.)

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What confuses me is that it's only a very small handful of Fi users that I seem to run into troubles with and even that is not all the time. In this case, I believe that Te probably is a plausible explanation.
    This has also cause me some confusion. Because I also normally get along with INFJs... and, even when there is a problem, it usually resolves very quickly. I do think Orobas is onto something about Te and Fe being in a tug of war here.

    So Fidelia, my Fi is feeling all shiny and glowing.

    Now all I have to do is figure out how to make Fe happy.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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    I still have a lot to read in this thread, it's fascinating.

    But Jennifer still can't for the life of her figure out why Esoteric Wench insists on referring to Esoteric Wench in the third person.

    Maybe that is a question for the "Common ENFP Issues" thread?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I still have a lot to read in this thread, it's fascinating.

    But Jennifer still can't for the life of her figure out why Esoteric Wench insists on referring to Esoteric Wench in the third person.

    Maybe that is a question for the "Common ENFP Issues" thread?
    I literally guffawed when I read this. So true. So true. Perhaps Esoteric Wench overuses that literary technique.

    Facebook status updates got me in the habit... and now I'm ruined.

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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