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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #181
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Arclight, you are a better and more understanding person than I am right now.

    I must admit that I'm feeling intense frustration with Fidelia right now because I feel like I've bent over backward to be kind, humble, conciliatory... And the crux of Fidelia's response was that she felt uneasy about my post because she thought that my style of presentation wasn't quite right and that I was being presumptive.



    Arclight, you asked Fidelia how you could better deliver a critical message without hurting the recipient... INFJ style. This is a great question that I completely respect.

    But maybe a better question for Fidelia would be this:

    "If I, as an INFJ, find something someone does unsettling or distasteful, what should I do about it?"

    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    I think this is the really important question to ask in such situations. Because INFJs are prone to be unsettled whenever things don't turn out as expected. (<--- This seems a natural product of an INFJs unique mix of cognitive functions.)

    It must seem to an INFJ that these kinds of upsets are caused by external circumstances and situations... like Esoteric Wench's bullet pointed posts. But, that's not really true. It's true that things will happen over which an INFJ has no control. But INFJs can control how they perceive things, or judge such incidents.*

    I think if I were an INFJ, I'd try to put a red flag up whenever something made me feel uneasy or unsettled. I'd make sure I asked myself if my motivation for judging the matter at hand was to be able to understand its usefulness in the world or to dismiss it.

    Take for example Fidelia's comments about Esoteric Wench's presumptiveness. I wonder if Fidelia would still be bothered by this if she knew that long ago, I decided that being afraid to proudly proclaim what I believed wasn't doing anybody any good. The only thing it did was diffuse the poignancy of my message. If I didn't believe I were right, then I wouldn't have written it, no?

    And as for the bolded interstitials, etc., this comes from working in marketing communications and PR for 15 years. Long block of texts (which my bombastically verbose tendencies are wont to produce) are very boring for a lot of people to read. So industry best practice is to break them up with interesting visual details. I always try to do this when I post a wall of text. It's best practice in my field.

    Perhaps this thread is a situation that calls for Fidelia to first ask herself if Esoteric Wench is behaving in a manner consistent with HER values. We're hear to learn from each other and communicate aren't we? So don't my values have some value? Doesn't everyone have something to contribute?

    If she had, then I hope that she would have come to the conclusion that Esoteric Wench was not trying to be pedantic or righteous. Instead, she was trying to be intelligent, witty, self-disclosing, and insightful. (With a little bit of good marketing copy writer thrown in.) And, perhaps she would have concluded that Esoteric Wench was trying to give an earnest and humble response to Fidelia and other INFJs on this forum who she might have unintentionally offended earlier.




    *Sections of this response were inspired by the INFJ Personal Growth page on ThePersonalityPage.com. This is such a well written article!

    **And just so Esoteric Wench doesn't smell from the stink of hypocrisy, let me point out that ENFPs have red flag issues of their own. For example, whenever I feel like I'm being controlled, I put up a red flag and consider if perhaps I'm just using my Fi to support the needs of my Ne.

    The thing is, you're not an INFJ, you haven't taken the time to truly understand where we're coming from, yet insist that you know what is best for us to do. Not only that, this thread wasn't started as a "How Can I As An INFJ Get Along Better With ENFPs". It was started as a window into our way of thinking to see if we can better untangle why/when misunderstandings occur or what we as INFJs all identify with and what we've done/are doing about it. I am open to people's advice, but only if I have solicited it and feel that they are qualified to give it to me. You have chosen to come to an INFJ discussion thread. Even though you are welcome to contribute, you are a guest, just as I would be on a discussion thread about why ENFPs think as they do.

    Unless you go back and address the concerns we have as valid or we figure out where the misunderstanding happens, you will find that INFJs will continue to resist you or the points you are making steadfastly, even if there is something useful in them. By ignoring those points of contention or dismissing them as invalid (as you did in the Doorslam thread as well), you are ensuring that you will not be heard and will further contribute to the negative impression that INFJs may already have. Every little bit of difference will grate against us and annoy, where it would not normally in nearly the same way. When you go back and sort those things out, you will find that INFJs are surprisingly more receptive, polite and will overlook misunderstandings much more easily.

    No matter what your opinion is of this phenomenon, it's how we work and I doubt that you will see everyone switch their way of perceiving things or change completely just because you think it's a better way. You are more than welcome to bring up, "But what about x?", but ignoring the elephant in the room will ensure extreme bluntness that is uncharacteristic of us. The previous examples of non-private directness, outright disagreement without looking for common ground or specific examples of what was wrong are usually very good warning signals from an INFJ. If pushed further, they will no longer filter what they are thinking and will not take the wide audience involved into account in the way they would if you noticed those signals and backed off in your approach.

  2. #182
    にゃん Array runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't think it would bother me, but FWIW, I do the same thing -- even though I do most of the household laundry, I keep my own separate and I really don't like anybody else messing with it or any of my systems, to be honest. If it's my job, it's my job and I have a system. If somebody else wants to take over the job (not my laundry ), that's cool, but in my mind it becomes their job. For the past several years my husband has done most of his own laundry and it doesn't hurt my feelings a bit. What bothers me is when someone pops in, messes up my system, then doesn't do the job dependably thereafter and I have to go in and try to get it sorted all out again. But I'm probably an old crank.
    Why is it always you making me quesition my P...

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    As long as you explained before, I think it would actually avert disaster and hurt feelings.
    Yeah, that's been the thought, but ever since the last straw I haven't had anyone else get close enough yet so I'm still with out real world test data.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.


  3. #183
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    My ESTJ used to be very fussy about his laundry. I knew it, so I tried to avoid having anything to do with it. Even things like towels had to be folded a particular way and so on. One day he asked me if I'd fold up some laundry while he was working on something. By the time he interrupted for the fifth time with what I was doing wrong, I threw up my hands in frustration. I explained that he can tell me from the start how he want the job done and interrupt once with how to do something different, but if he was going to be like that, it spoiled the usefulness of any time I could save him, and made me feel my best efforts could never be good enough. Your policy would have saved a lot of trouble.

  4. #184
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    This is simply not true. I am no better or worse than you are EW.
    I am not here to point fingers or blame anyone. I cannot ask all INFJs to answer for what one might have done. I can only ask them to help me understand why, and hopefully they are willing to share.

    At some point I have to cut a little slack for them. I have simply adjusted my communication style so as to not offend, and it doesn't violate my Fi to do so. It in fact feels nice and if I understand it.. it stimulates my Fe and then I am able to make a better connection because My tone and language change.
    I change direction. It's not impossible you know. In fact didn't you just talk about this very concept??
    Awesomeness. I completely appreciate anyone that can turn my own argument on me. Fantastic. I genuflect in your general direction.

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Awesomeness. I completely appreciate anyone that can turn my own argument on me. Fantastic. I genuflect in your general direction.

    Are you being facetious?
    If you are , please understand that I was uncomfortable with you calling me out as being a better or more understanding person.. and I sought to defend myself.

    I am also not sure if was a genuine comment, because it was used a precursor to a post that was scathing with sarcasm, and I wasn't sure how I fit into all of that.

    I apologize if I have upset you EW. It was not my intention.. I just felt very uncomfortable.

  6. #186
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Are you being facetious?
    If you are , please understand that I was uncomfortable with you calling me out as being a better or more understanding person.. and I sought to defend myself.

    I am also not sure if was a genuine comment, because it was used a precursor to a post that was scathing with sarcasm, and I wasn't sure how I fit into all of that.

    I apologize if I have upset you EW. It was not my intention.. I just felt very uncomfortable.
    I was completely being serious.... the very opposite of facetious... seriously.

    And I need some more time to process. More responses to other posts coming soon.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #187
    Senior Member Array Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    I think it's important (and much appreciated) to note that both sides, Fi and Fe, are trying to understand each other in this thread and no one intends the feel of rudeness or meanness in their posts even if it is sometimes mistranslated by the other side. Just sometimes the distinct feeling of angst at trying to ram ideas through a brick wall.

    Now to find my earlier post so I can continue it....
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

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  8. #188
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Rudeness, no. But shortness? Absolutely intentional.

  9. #189
    Sniffles
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    Has the issue of difficulty managing time and energy been brought up already?

  10. #190
    Senior Member Array Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Perhaps, but from both sides.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

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