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Thread: Common INFJ issues

  1. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    You might not hitch with INFJs, but it doesn't mean that they need to change. It may mean that if you and they are going to work together, both will have to change their approaches somewhat. And for close relationships, you could choose to avoid INFJs because those qualities are a big part of what they are all about. Choose someone that is closer to what you can deal with. I don't like to be short with people or disrespectful to them. You should know though that your approach was disrespectful and rude and it won't win INFJs over to your way of doing things, even if that's how you really, really feel is the best way to fly.

    You cannot glibly tell someone that their basic nature (along with values that are very important to them) are flawed and they need to completely change and adopt your way of doing things and expect they will happily accept your verdict. You obviously have not taken time to understand why some of those things are a Big Deal. More effective would be explaining why what they are doing isn't always effective, give some specific examples and then leave it to them to mull.
    wow Fidelia, these two bolded parts resonate so strongly with me. They really address thoughts I have been having a lot as of late-but about what it means to be an ENFP...

    They are exactly what we feel when people describe our innate behavior and then say we are crazy, attention seeking, overly emotional, manipulative or other insulting things. We aren't any of those things-we are just people with an innate pattern of behavior that the other person doesnt understand-but we are expected to totally redefine ourselves if we are to be "acceptable".

    Part of the reason I have been pondering these thoughts on several threads is that I am tired of having to try and change what I am innately. These are really good thoughts.

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    When one is "formal" with an INTJ, you evoke the INTJ's thinking (Te, instead of Fe). It doesn't feel "considerate" or good or polite or anything, it is merely "how you do things in order to get them done." This is why it's nigh impossible to compliment or insult an INTJ, or to give an INTJ a gift that is meaningful.
    +1000 i'm quite sure that half of humanity can feel that just by trying to make a conversation with an INTJ, the other half, as i've seen it happening, does give presents that probably make for some awkward moments, but i'm content not having heard about that.

  3. #133
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Imagine people as beams of light shining across the room onto a blank wall. The color of the beams change with the mood of the person. Whenever the lights are in contact, the colors mingle, creating a new color on the wall.
    A nice post. A lovely metaphor. No, I amend that: it's a fabulous metaphor.

    I do agree that I don't seek to change your color beam. Meaning, I don't have a preconceived notion of what your colour should be. But, that doesn't mean I am oblivious to how our colour blends, or that different moods and people mixed in affect the changing of a colour, and you do have the power to change mine, so I have to be careful about your colour taking over my colour. I totally have the power to influence colours too. But it feels intrusive and presumptuous to change YOUR colour. Unless I think you are very sad or stuck - then of course I want to help you change your colour, through the influence of my colour but not BY my colour.

    That being said too, I "see" when someone is trying to change other colours to get what they want, then I feel offended by the inappropriate use of the F power.

    INFJ and INFP too are Fe sec + Fi dom. I wonder what an ENFJ (Fe dom) would say here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Plus, I need to see if anyone burned me in effigy during my hiatus.
    There's a little smoke coming off your sock, but it seems to have survived intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Do you think Fi in real life is very private and so you often do not get into the same kinds of clashes as easily?
    IRL I would not express myself as I do here. At all. Mostly because most of the world is disinterested. So ... you get to see the unvarnished edges. 5% of the time.

    Myself too, as a 9w1, SO dominant, I feel groups, I get the power dynamics, I see and use and feel Fe all the time. I can circumnavigate with ease, understand who needs what, who needs to be reassured, who responds to play or flattery or matter-of-fact communication.

    I think Fi is hard for people to deal with. It's hard enough for me to deal with despite a toolbox of tools at this point in my life to wield it with wisdom and hewn with balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I fix your PC, you make me dinner, this deal has been working for my wife and I for 16 years.
    LOL, I make dinner hubs does the dishes. Love that kind of balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    It would be interesting to compare INFJ 1w2s w/ INFJ 4w5s...
    I think it can make a big difference; as a type 9 I seem different than many INFP's ... I can feel it. I seem to relate least to my type 4 brethren. (But I still wuv's ya!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    After only knowing them for a few days they will tell me all of their frustrations or about how painful the last year has been for them or how dumb other people are. They innately trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    You know that if you did that to an INFJ they would either be annoyed, or kill you, right?
    LOL, you two are so cute.

    Yes, it's knowing WHEN to use the CRAZEE and when to put it away. Thus the INFP feeling of being a chameleon, which I have written about before. Adapting to all situations. Trying to use the right tools for the job. Filling your toolbox so you have the tools in the first place. That was what prompted my desire to understand the enneagram instinctual stacking order - more tools, that I can use to help fix things / stay out of "doggie-doo-doo" with.

    Good stuff.
    Last edited by PeaceBaby; 07-20-2010 at 03:57 PM.
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  4. #134
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    well...I'd suggest this falls in the category of unintentional ENFP manipulation...until you realize what you have been doing. Then you get a choice, because you can hurt people if you are not careful.

    I walk up the door of an IXTJ's office, drop all my guards and just let all that weird, messed up childish Fi glow at them. Fi does not remain within the confines of my body. It kinda touches people. (Insert CRAZEE) I let them know I love them, because I am an idiot and pretty much love everyone. The best I can figure, something about the facial expression, the openness, the sheer nuttiness of it, causes them to get happy, even if they are miserable.

    I have heard mirror neurons suggested as a potential explanation.

    They kinda look at me sideways and they smile. I actually will hug the INTJs and touch their faces. It is almost spontaneous. It isnt sexual at all, just love. After only knowing them for a few days they will tell me all of their frustrations or about how painful the last year has been for them or how dumb other people are. They innately trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    You know that if you did that to an INFJ they would either be annoyed, or kill you, right? I don't mind occasional nuttiness if I'm part of it and the circumstances are right. Otherwise, it seems like attention seeking. (I don't mean this unkindly, but find it interesting at how very differently different types will respond to the same thing).
    I've gotta stop in in the middle of my catch up on this thread and respond to this exchange between Fidelia and Orobas. I stopped dead in my tracks when I read this. DEAD IN MY TRACKS!

    I had this exact same thing happen between me and an INFJ once. I was just being my normal zany self. He accused me of "trying to get his attention."

    I cannot tell you how angry I got when he said that to me. I thought him an arrogant son of a bitch to think that was my motivation in sharing my zaniness with him. I'm still mad when I think about it.

    For the first time in two years, I think I might have a glimmer of why he misinterpreted my actions.

    Now this INFJ was being a bit... well let's just say that it's time life took him down a peg or two at that particular juncture, but wow.... I'm going to have to process this.

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  5. #135
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Lots of interesting stuff to comment on. Re the colour thing - I think it says that INFJs and INFPs love people in very different ways and I'm not sure what the success rate of it would be if they got together, even understanding those differences. For me at least, I think I would always be left feeling unloved and constantly that any natural attempts to show love for my SO would be felt as intrusive and rude.

  6. #136
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Esoteric, in conjuction with what umlauu said, as well as your comments on the craziness thing - To me, it is received kind of like someone who has been introduced to you with your last name being used and the other person settles in and not only uses your first name, but a familiar silly name derived from your first name that annoys and then uses it frequently in the conversation. It's not even that I want to remain the social equivalent of being on a Mr., Mrs, or Miss basis, but it is only polite to wait until the other person says, "Hey, call me such and such" or until you've known each other long enough for someone to come up with a pet name. It's coming in and acting like Tigger without checking to see what the other person's mood and mindset is like first. And that is why it is perceived as attention seeking, or else being offensive/socially unaware.

  7. #137
    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    well...I'd suggest this falls in the category of unintentional ENFP manipulation...until you realize what you have been doing. Then you get a choice, because you can hurt people if you are not careful.

    I walk up the door of an IXTJ's office, drop all my guards and just let all that weird, messed up childish Fi glow at them. Fi does not remain within the confines of my body. It kinda touches people. (Insert CRAZEE) I let them know I love them, because I am an idiot and pretty much love everyone. The best I can figure, something about the facial expression, the openness, the sheer nuttiness of it, causes them to get happy, even if they are miserable.

    I have heard mirror neurons suggested as a potential explanation.

    They kinda look at me sideways and they smile. I actually will hug the INTJs and touch their faces. It is almost spontaneous. It isnt sexual at all, just love. After only knowing them for a few days they will tell me all of their frustrations or about how painful the last year has been for them or how dumb other people are. They innately trust me.
    I think this is charming. I don't know if it would work with an ISTJ though. INTJ yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think this is charming. I don't know if it would work with an ISTJ though. INTJ yes.
    Yeah..... normally this stuff completely works on most people. I guess I never tried to think about which MBTI types it would work with and which ones it wouldn't work with... then again, it's only recently that I was even aware that not everyone did this.... In other words, that this kind of behavior is an Fi thing.

    My intuition tells me that this would work with INFJs, too. But apparently, my intuition is not batting 1000 today.
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    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Being hugged by someone who is not part of my most inner circle? Having my face touched by them? Spilling everything in response to someone glowing? Nope, I don't think INFJs would respond. I actually am surprised to find out that this is key in an INTJ responding differently (or other Fi users). I made the same assumption as you EW, except to the opposite way of thinking! What would it feel like though if a Fe user did it?

  10. #140
    thankful Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ have you not watched people, to unlock their "secrets"? To see how each person responds uniquely to each other?

    What one person finds charming and disarming is what causes another to freeze and shrink away in fear ... so you adapt, you take in all this data and utilize it in your worldly interactions.

    Can you relate to me saying this?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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