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[MBTI General] INF depth?

Wandering

Highly Hollow
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Dec 24, 2007
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873
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INFJ
We should also note that the Extroverted Intuition of the INFP is often aimed inwards due to the primacy of an Introverted Function-Introverted Feeling. Fi-Introverted Feeling, bends the Extroverted Intuition inwards and therefore creates the effect germane to Introverted Intuition.
That smells like BlueWing's stuff. Am I right?

is this analogous to how an infj would access their "witch" Fi?
I don't need to "access" my witch: she's always there screaming in my ears :rolli: My problem is how to shut her up :cool: I don't know for other INFJs though.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
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Apr 23, 2007
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INTP
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5w6
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so/sx
thanks everyone, your replies have been helpful. :)



is this analogous to how an infj would access their "witch" Fi?

This is not how an INFJ would access Fi, here, however, to an outside observer it will seem like the INFJ is using Fi.

Not that the INFJ cannot at all employ Fi, it is simply more difficult to access than Fe because it is further down on the functional hierarchy.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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INfj
In this case, envy could be taken as something of a compliment, actually.
Very right you are... a compliment, indirectly. The type INFPs more readily accept.


I wouldn't call Fe cold... it's just not internal. It really seems like I only really feel something while the thing provoking the feeling is actually there, or I'm imagining that situation or perspective again. The feeling can't be separated from the trigger. If the trigger is removed, the feeling is as well (at least consciously). So as soon as I realize that a person didn't intend something the way I took it, my feelings tend to realign with the new perception of the situation. So I can go from angry to pleased (and vice-versa) much more quickly. One of the weirdest examples someone else noticed was when I was irritated with someone I was talking to in person, and I then picked up the phone and spoke pleasantly to the other person whole time, and then put it down and resumed seeming frustrated.
Yet the apparent "warmth" of Fe is all on the surface. That's why I used the word "cold" to describe it. I feel mine is absolutely unconscious; it just reacts. An external event triggers a Fe response... you display and "feel" the emotion, yet you can completely detach yourself from it. Well at least I can. To a stage where I'm displaying a response... like crying my eyes out... but inside I'm not feeling anything and just thinking. The INFPs on the other hand... inside is the outside. No tricks, nothing hidden.

"We should also note that the Extroverted Intuition of the INFP is often aimed inwards due to the primacy of an Introverted Function-Introverted Feeling. Fi-Introverted Feeling, bends the Extroverted Intuition inwards and therefore creates the effect germane to Introverted Intuition."

is this analogous to how an infj would access their "witch" Fi?
I think what BW was trying to say is that Fi combined with Ne looks like Ni in action... and so for an INFJ, Ni combined with Fe when viewed from the outside is like Fi. Yet we ourselves know it's not the same thing at all.

We can use Fi... but most of the time Fe overrides it.
 

heart

heart on fire
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Messages
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Yet the apparent "warmth" of Fe is all on the surface. That's why I used the word "cold" to describe it. I feel mine is absolutely unconscious; it just reacts. An external event triggers a Fe response... you display and "feel" the emotion, yet you can completely detach yourself from it. Well at least I can. To a stage where I'm displaying a response... like crying my eyes out... but inside I'm not feeling anything and just thinking. The INFPs on the other hand... inside is the outside. No tricks, nothing hidden.

Yes, often I feel choking on tears, very upset inside, but on the outside appear cold. I have only cried in front of my husband and mother in my life, no one else.
 

marm

New member
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Messages
134
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INFP
I was very emotional as a child. I was entirely motivated by emotion, but even then I didn't show it obviously. I can only remember one time in my life where I cried in public.

These days, I show even less. My face is often ureadable, and I haven't cried to any significant degree in decades. I do feel deeply, but I'm extremely protective of my inner experience.

My Fe sister-in-law was surprised by my admitting to having deep feelings because she couldn't detect them at all. She expresses an emotion and then forgets it even occurred, and express an entirely opposite feeling an hour later.

Maybe connected to depth is a feeling of constancy. My feelings change very very slowly. My moods can last months. People have said that I seem very dependable and I assume this is what they're observing, but I don't feel dependable in a lot of ways. I do depend on this Fi sense of a core truth. It may be dependable, but it is also independent.
 

JivinJeffJones

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I've often wondered if "depth" is actually just what the process of endlessly attempting to identify and align inarticulate and contradictory values looks like. Or maybe it's the aftermath of that process? It's not often that clear (or convinced, at least) thinkers are accused of depth. Maybe INFJs are not often called "deep" because they are less confused and more organized with their values? Maybe they don't have the required doubt to seem deep?
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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I've often wondered if "depth" is actually just what the process of endlessly attempting to identify and align inarticulate and contradictory values looks like. Or maybe it's the aftermath of that process? It's not often that clear (or convinced, at least) thinkers are accused of depth. Maybe INFJs are not often called "deep" because they are less confused and more organized with their values? Maybe they don't have the required doubt to seem deep?

I guess I just tend to focus so much on values related to what I can observe so that I can use them to help, that it never really occurs to me that values might be anywhere on the inside, and I just have the patterns I look for internalized instead. We're backwards from one another, I think.

J/P makes a bigger difference than most other dichotomies, unfortunately.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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I'd like to ask why the dominant Fi users consider Fe to be "cold"?
 

Athenian200

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I'd like to ask why the dominant Fi users consider Fe to be "cold"?

I have most often been considered to be "cold" by Fe doms.

It's simple, really. Fi is deep on the inside and cold to the outside. Fe is warm to the outside and has a colder part on the inside.

Where there's Fi, there's Te.

Where there's Fe, there's Ti.
 

marm

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I don't consider Fe cold.

My Fe sister-in-law is one of the friendliest people I know and I get along with her better than my NFP sister-in-law.
 

Domino

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I have most often been considered to be "cold" by Fe doms.

Then they don't know you.

It's simple, really. Fi is deep on the inside and cold to the outside. Fe is warm to the outside and has a colder part on the inside.

Where there's Fi, there's Te.

Where there's Fe, there's Ti.

Thank you, ladies, for your insights! :)
 

heart

heart on fire
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After reading this thread and digesting some of the comments, I have an opinion. I think it is important to allow perceptions into Fi, the inferior functions need to be able to have their say, but I have found that giving too much importance to the outside world and not attending to my inner life is a sure course to depression and a kind of brittle, trite exterior that is sure to irritate others around me.

It is the taking in of external perceptions and allowing them to illuminate my vision but never allowing them to control my inner vision that I think is the best way for me personally to be.
 

SolitaryPenguin

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not attending to my inner life is a sure course to depression and a kind of brittle, trite exterior that is sure to irritate others around me

This is exactly why I was labeled the "angry hippie" for so long. A perfect summary, thank you :)
 

Athenian200

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After reading this thread and digesting some of the comments, I have an opinion. I think it is important to allow perceptions into Fi, the inferior functions need to be able to have their say, but I have found that giving too much importance to the outside world and not attending to my inner life is a sure course to depression and a kind of brittle, trite exterior that is sure to irritate others around me.

It is the taking in of external perceptions and allowing them to illuminate my vision but never allowing them to control my inner vision that I think is the best way for me personally to be.

What puzzles me, though, is how an inner perception of one's own feelings can be used to live life. It doesn't really seem to come from anywhere. That's probably the most confusing thing about IxFP's to others... their decisions and opinions seem to be influenced by something I don't see. It can be quite disconcerting and alarming at times.

It seems less so to people who "get" Fi, and unfortunately I don't. :(

In other words, I think you have to be an INFP in order to understand one, on some level.
 

marm

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What puzzles me, though, is how an inner perception of one's own feelings can be used to live life.

The thing is that I'm not only focused on my own inner feelings. I'm also focused on other people's inner feelings. If I'm relaxed in my inner experience, then I look past the external behavior of others and sense out their motivations. This sense also can help me notice the subtle ways people are relating to eachother. That kind of info is very practical for living one's life.

It doesn't really seem to come from anywhere. That's probably the most confusing thing about IxFP's to others... their decisions and opinions seem to be influenced by something I don't see. It can be quite disconcerting and alarming at times.

I think most Fi types can be quite easy to understand once you get the sense of that one central thing that they order their lives by, but of course this one thing can be a complex feeling that isn't easily put into words. So, maybe only another Fi type could figure it out. On the other hand, I'm sure most INFPs would love to try to explain it if you're willing to listen. INFPs have been known to talk endlessly about their internal experiences and analyzing them to death.
 

Athenian200

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The thing is that I'm not only focused on my own inner feelings. I'm also focused on other people's inner feelings. If I'm relaxed in my inner experience, then I look past the external behavior of others and sense out their motivations. This sense also can help me notice the subtle ways people are relating to eachother. That kind of info is very practical for living one's life.

Well, I would have thought that was more Fe. If that's what you do, then what do you see Fe as doing?
I think most Fi types can be quite easy to understand once you get the sense of that one central thing that they order their lives by, but of course this one thing can be a complex feeling that isn't easily put into words. So, maybe only another Fi type could figure it out. On the other hand, I'm sure most INFPs would love to try to explain it if you're willing to listen. INFPs have been known to talk endlessly about their internal experiences and analyzing them to death.

Oh. That's similar to what INTP's do, except they seem to be better at verbalizing and explaining what that one thing is.
 

marm

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Well, I would have thought that was more Fe. If that's what you do, then what do you see Fe as doing?

There is a way of focusing on others in an Introverted way. I perceive others the way I perceive myself. I realize this may make no sense to you, but its the best I can do.

To be philosophical about it, all of reality has an Introverted component.
 

Athenian200

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There is a way of focusing on others in an Introverted way. I perceive others the way I perceive myself. I realize this may make no sense to you, but its the best I can do.

It made sense, I just can't use it because I don't understand how you perceive yourself. I appreciate your trying anyway.
To be philosophical about it, all of reality has an Introverted component.

True enough. Except I'm not sure feelings (or other functions) are a part of reality as much as they're a part of how we process reality. Feelings are more about how people perceive themselves to be affected by reality than about reality itself.
 

marm

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True enough. Except I'm not sure feelings (or other functions) are a part of reality as much as they're a part of how we process reality. Feelings are more about how people perceive themselves to be affected by reality than about reality itself.

However, we only know reality by our processing of reality... says my Fi. I use objectivity when thinking about ideas especially when discussing them, but my sense of reality is extremely subjective. Theories such as the collective unconscious and consensual reality are very attractive to me.
 
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