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Thread: INF depth?

  1. #61
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    It's difficult to determine exactly what you are trying to understand.

    I think that INFXs exist mostly under the surface, where their true selves can't be easily touched by the outside world. However, since INFPs can seem a bit more "bubbly" and "naive" in what they do show the outside world as compared to the INFJs stoic and controlled demeanor, it isn't difficult to get the impression that they are very innocent. Then when they choose to express their true hidden depth, it can be confounding and make them appear inauthentic because it stands in stark contrast to what we had come to percieve as their true selves. However, I wouldn't say it is two-faced or insincere because INFJs also don't show their true colors to the outside world until a degree of trust is established.

    As far as the amount of "depth", I wouldn't say that one type could really be described as having more than the other. I would say INFJs express a different type of depth than INFPs, and so it can seem that we "surpass" each other. That would probably be indicative of the Ni,Fe vs. Ne,Fi. You would have to ask BW about that since he is the self proclaimed expert on the "Fi effect". I just don't have the background knowledge in the theory to describe it.
    Depth is now.

  2. #62
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    I wanted to put this here because it seems related.

    Today is a coworker's last day. She's a temp, but I have become fairly ok friends with her, and I have been kind of dreading not feeling her feeling tone here everyday.

    I've wondered if I'm the only one around who is effected this way by the feeling tone of people around me. I get accustomed to feeling it's presence and it starts to feel comfortable. I used to go through a kind of withdrawal at the end of every youth group bus trip when I was in high school and college. On the part of the trip when we were returning home I was ready for it to be over, but at the same time I was dreading the final disembarkment. I knew that I would never feel the feeling tone of those people around me that intimately again. This must seem like a very superficial / artificial connection to those whose preference is for Fe, but it's very real to me.

  3. #63
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will5250 View Post
    I wanted to put this here because it seems related.

    Today is a coworker's last day. She's a temp, but I have become fairly ok friends with her, and I have been kind of dreading not feeling her feeling tone here everyday.

    I've wondered if I'm the only one around who is effected this way by the feeling tone of people around me. I get accustomed to feeling it's presence and it starts to feel comfortable. I used to go through a kind of withdrawal at the end of every youth group bus trip when I was in high school and college. On the part of the trip when we were returning home I was ready for it to be over, but at the same time I was dreading the final disembarkment. I knew that I would never feel the feeling tone of those people around me that intimately again. This must seem like a very superficial / artificial connection to those whose preference is for Fe, but it's very real to me.
    That's very strange, though... I usually don't even notice that as much. I typically think at the end of something like that that I'm going to keep in touch with the people that mattered to me, and that I'll see them again somehow. Then a few months later, I realize I haven't heard from them, and that I somehow let them slip out of my life without realizing I let it happen, kept forgetting to write them or call them, and that I can't now because it would be too awkward. Although I guess I really only felt much for people I actually conversed with about things, rather than just everyone I happened to be around.

    I can honestly say I've never managed to be friends with anyone longer than a year or so, simply due to this bad habit. Although I think I would have stayed friends with them if we had continued to be part of the same groups or something.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I can honestly say I've never managed to be friends with anyone longer than a year or so, simply due to this bad habit. Although I think I would have stayed friends with them if we had continued to be part of the same groups or something.
    Friendships for me are not dependent upon intermittent word exchanges for me to continue to feel close to them. I have IRL friends that I might manage to run into them maybe once a month if that, but we give each other a big hug anyway when we do encounter one another. I have a few online friends that we have been my friends for nearly a decade. However I can feel them out there anytime I miss them, and a couple of those friends can experience me the same way, and I feel it when they do. I wonder if this is an example of extroverting Fi.

  5. #65
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    it's true. we are deeper LOL

  6. #66
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Yet the apparent "warmth" of Fe is all on the surface. That's why I used the word "cold" to describe it. I feel mine is absolutely unconscious; it just reacts. An external event triggers a Fe response... you display and "feel" the emotion, yet you can completely detach yourself from it. Well at least I can. To a stage where I'm displaying a response... like crying my eyes out... but inside I'm not feeling anything and just thinking.
    it can be analytical and momentarily detached, but even more so, it can feel like we're constantly getting caught in BETWEEN things (and we notice this). i haven't quite worked this out yet, but i feel like Fe gives an increasingly pronounced focus on Otherness. placing ourselves in the perspectives of others and allowing the imagined feelings to become our own temporarily. considering. circumspecting. very chameleonesque. we move around the scene very quickly and pick up information. everything mood-based lingers around us. the scene has a specific character, like music. we are triggered by others bc we are constantly imagining what they feel. trying to locate what kind of feelings they have within our own larger imaginative introverted intuition big picture framework, what we know about them, and what they seem to be telling us. our overall Fe feeling is a combination of the sum total of the scene itself (feelings, mood), the big picture happening right now (meaning), and our place within it. we observe it, but when it's broken, we want to take charge and direct it.

    i do not think it's cold. sometimes the signal just goes dead. we just get noise, static, nonsense. other times we are profoundly affected by the feelings of others. by the intensity of their feelings, but also by the intensity of the circumstances that create such powerful and complex feelings. we crave context to allow us full and total access so we can grasp them across as many different planes as possible. create more potential connections and complex interrelated meaning.

    Fe just gets charged by whatever emotional current is flowing around it. magnetized. polarity. tuned to the frequency. etc. the expression of feeling triggers powerful responses that our Ni connects to our own experiences, whereas Fi senses a connection between experiences after which the feeling is then reproduced (inside the interior).

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I've often wondered if "depth" is actually just what the process of endlessly attempting to identify and align inarticulate and contradictory values looks like. Or maybe it's the aftermath of that process? It's not often that clear (or convinced, at least) thinkers are accused of depth. Maybe INFJs are not often called "deep" because they are less confused and more organized with their values? Maybe they don't have the required doubt to seem deep?
    "depth" means that there is much that lies beneath the surface. infp is not alone in this category. their feelings are their most complex instrument to categorize, prioritize, and synthesize information. ours is our introverted intuition. we do not lack doubt in any way shape or form more or less than infp. we are self-critical in different ways. we use different tools to hone our value-system, to perfect our ideas and attitudes, hopes and dreams. we rely on different feedback measures to comb out glaring inconsistencies and incongruities and integrate ourselves and our ideals with more coherence. infjs often admire the way that Fi deals with emotional currency in such a fluent and beautiful way. and while the language of the heart speaks to us very intensely, we are loyal servants more so to the Big Picture we see revealed to us (+ our place within it) and ITS perfection than to maintaining our own congruent set of subjective values. we are capable of being dramatic shapeshifters.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    The thing is that I'm not only focused on my own inner feelings. I'm also focused on other people's inner feelings. If I'm relaxed in my inner experience, then I look past the external behavior of others and sense out their motivations. This sense also can help me notice the subtle ways people are relating to eachother. That kind of info is very practical for living one's life.
    more shades of feeling, more coal in the fire, you are both sensitive and well-stocked for reproducing the feelings of others internally.everything is comes with a very finely shaded feeling tone attached. you guess too, but you're generally very attuned and whatever you guess, you actually make in-house and feel very strongly. your empathy doesn't even have to be 100% correct to the feeling, bc regardless the intensity is there and it is an undoubtedly real emotional pang within you. so it works. it feels unburdening for others.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    I think most Fi types can be quite easy to understand once you get the sense of that one central thing that they order their lives by, but of course this one thing can be a complex feeling that isn't easily put into words. So, maybe only another Fi type could figure it out. On the other hand, I'm sure most INFPs would love to try to explain it if you're willing to listen. INFPs have been known to talk endlessly about their internal experiences and analyzing them to death.
    their values are decidedly unhierarchical. they aren't organized by Te. they're messy, complex, and convoluted. it's like a city where you can't demolish any buildings, you just have to build around. nothing gets erased. and i don't know any infps who actually want to talk about them in depth, bc they usually feel like they're coming out all wrong and that you are not grasping what they are saying (which, you're not, there's only a million and one indescribable connections and tensions and frustrations between each little proposed sentence). just wait for their art to come out or give up (half-joking, maybe two-thirds).

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's just that sometimes they seem to react by applying values in a situation that I don't think calls for them to be applied. And then I'm at a total loss as to how to respond. So basically, it would be a lot easier to interact with them if I understood where their values came from. I just don't like that they seem to expect me to respect their values when I don't even see how their values are involved in this situation, or even what their values are based on.

    INFP's just get angry if I don't get it or explain why I disagree. They even seem to expect me to see all of the value and immediately embrace it, after one instance of it being applied, and I often don't. Sometimes even if I agree with them, they get angry later on because I didn't see how a different situation fit into the same value, confused and not even seeing them as connected.
    having what is most important to you come out wrong is pretty much the worst feeling in the world. whenever this happens to me, i get a little batty. it's happened so many times, i've smashed my head into the wall enough times that my mushy brain is much much better at communicating than it used to be. nevertheless, i still get a prickly panicky feeling up my arm just imagining this feeling. infps hate it too. Fi is a slow-burning function, and often they're still working on organizing themselves and providing a structure in which to sketch and revise their understanding and articulation and it is just too unfinished for public consumption.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    their values are decidedly unhierarchical. they aren't organized by Te. they're messy, complex, and convoluted. it's like a city where you can't demolish any buildings, you just have to build around. nothing gets erased. and i don't know any infps who actually want to talk about them in depth, bc they usually feel like they're coming out all wrong and that you are not grasping what they are saying (which, you're not, there's only a million and one indescribable connections and tensions and frustrations between each little proposed sentence). just wait for their art to come out or give up (half-joking, maybe two-thirds).
    I'm shocked by this picture you painted with this paragraph. It has an amazing level of clarity and expressed insight, with developed thoughts I've been waiting for another inxp to present without any luck. Amazing though, really.

  8. #68
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    However, since INFPs can seem a bit more "bubbly" and "naive" in what they do show the outside world as compared to the INFJs stoic and controlled demeanor, it isn't difficult to get the impression that they are very innocent. Then when they choose to express their true hidden depth, it can be confounding and make them appear inauthentic because it stands in stark contrast to what we had come to percieve as their true selves. However, I wouldn't say it is two-faced or insincere because INFJs also don't show their true colors to the outside world until a degree of trust is established.
    True facts. I look like a complete giggling moron on the outside, but I sometimes just get these moments when...I don't know, the world looks a little clearer, and you just want to hug the friend who's going through tough times, or cry over a heart you broke months ago, or wish you could do something about all those feelings swarming around within you before you just...break.

    Someone (much, much) earlier mentioned the flip side of our coin: the ditziness, the inability to harness our emotions, the spaciness and the lack of organization that gives our Fi so much free-range. It's absolutely frustrating, because being run by emotion is similar to running at break-neck speed without knowing exactly where you're going or when you're stopping. Sometimes you want to just take things in stride, decide what's worth agonizing over. But that takes a certain self-control that we must work to have.

    having what is most important to you come out wrong is pretty much the worst feeling in the world. whenever this happens to me, i get a little batty. it's happened so many times, i've smashed my head into the wall enough times that my mushy brain is much much better at communicating than it used to be. nevertheless, i still get a prickly panicky feeling up my arm just imagining this feeling. infps hate it too. Fi is a slow-burning function, and often they're still working on organizing themselves and providing a structure in which to sketch and revise their understanding and articulation and it is just too unfinished for public consumption.
    Absolutely true as well. Both sides--INFJ and INFP--have so much we want to explain, and when it comes out awkward or strange, well, who can blame us for being upset? We're showing our vulnerable sides and people are raising their eyebrows at us like, "What the crap is this chick talking about?" (It also doesn't help that sometimes we don't know what we're talking about, either.)

  9. #69
    Senior Member niki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    A lot of it is, of course, the emotional reaction to things (although I'd say the emotional reaction and the possibilities are very closely connected). How does this make me feel?. I think this generally gets manifested in creative ways, such as writing, and in general speach it is manifested in the seemingly random behaviour of INFP's A good example for me is that in the summer (as in, when its warm enough out) I like to go for runs very late at night -no earlier than midnight... usually midnight right on the nose, actually. People find this bizarre due to the lack of logical reason to do that at that time, and several misconceptions (that it must be dangerous at night and it must be too dark to see. Not true, there is no one outside and there are street lights. I live in a safe neighborhood). I do it because of the way it makes me feel, the night makes me feel at peace, and the running makes me feel at peace, too. It also gives me time to think about possibilities, or, in jung terms, use my intuition to the max for personal enjoyment. Being outside in an ever shifting environment (because you are running) provides good inspiration for these thoughts.
    LOL,
    your example of "walking at midnight, although seems 'illogical' and 'bizarre' , can give a special 'warmth' & tremendous 'feelings' inside me" is really hitting the spot!
    about 9-10 years ago, before i've even known MBTI Typology, a lot of people would view me as weird, and I myself even DIDN'T understand how I could have such immense, strong, & often, unexplainable-in-words kind of emotions/feelings when seeing something or being in certain places.
    but now, I guess I'm just *thankful* to know that I'm definitely not alone in my 'weirdness'!

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