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Thread: INF depth?

  1. #41
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    However, we only know reality by our processing of reality... says my Fi. I use objectivity when thinking about ideas especially when discussing them, but my sense of reality is extremely subjective. Theories such as the collective unconscious and consensual reality are very attractive to me.
    I agree with that. It's basically, "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."

    I often wonder about the collective unconscious as well. I've noticed that occasionally I seem to know things I shouldn't know if I've been in contact with enough other people that knew about it, even if they didn't actually talk about it. It's as if the very way they structured their speech and chose their words unconsciously gave me a vague impression of even small details of their personal experiences, like solving specific puzzles or details of events I shouldn't be able to know. It can be very weird at times. Like everything a person says fills in one part of a light area in a way you'd expect, and illuminates several scattered, varying parts of something you don't know you've realized until it hits you, and even then you don't always know who or where it came from.

  2. #42
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    What puzzles me, though, is how an inner perception of one's own feelings can be used to live life.
    Are you forgetting that Fi is not primarily oriented around feelings but rather values? If your understanding of the inner workings of someone who is Fi dominant is that they allow their lives (long-term and day-to-day) to be dictated by random feelings, then I could see why you would have trouble understanding or even respecting those types. How they select those values is a bit harder to understand. Is that what you are asking?

  3. #43
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    How they select those values is a bit harder to understand. Is that what you are asking?
    It's just that sometimes they seem to react by applying values in a situation that I don't think calls for them to be applied. And then I'm at a total loss as to how to respond. So basically, it would be a lot easier to interact with them if I understood where their values came from. I just don't like that they seem to expect me to respect their values when I don't even see how their values are involved in this situation, or even what their values are based on.

    I just struggle with vagueness in general. INTP's do that also, but can be pressed into an explanation I can understand if I really don't get it all, at worst with a few snide comments about my being imperceptive. INFP's just get angry if I don't get it or explain why I disagree. They even seem to expect me to see all of the value and immediately embrace it, after one instance of it being applied, and I often don't. Sometimes even if I agree with them, they get angry later on because I didn't see how a different situation fit into the same value, confused and not even seeing them as connected.

    Note that this is from experiences with a few that I've known. I don't know that this is typical... even if it is, I'd very much like to understand it, because I don't like having painful disagreements with them. I feel like I could learn more from them if I knew where they were coming from.

  4. #44
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Sounds like the INFPs you know are a bit strange.

  5. #45
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Sounds like the INFPs you know are a bit strange.
    Yeah... but I usually chalk it up to me being oblivious to how they see things and vice-versa, and just sadly accepting that I should probably just avoid conversing with them because it hurts and confuses me to do so. I thought maybe they just valued intensely personal feelings that had a pattern I couldn't fathom because I was not that perceptive. Or maybe because on some level I can't really accept things I don't understand at all (which has been a weakness of mine that I can't seem to get rid of)?

    Of course, if they make me mad enough, it usually sends me into an angry storm of rationalizing my position and picking apart everything they said that I usually regret.

  6. #46
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    INFJs are just brilliant at pointing out mistakes in INFP thinking... as long as they're friendly and helpful about it instead of on the attack (and we'll pick up - or think we're picking up - your intentions). I really appreciate those moments!

    So you just have to look like you really want to understand the INFP point of view, not look like you're picking things apart. So then when you correct us, you're helping to redirect individual threads of the interconnected INFP mind web, rather than cutting at the strands. The former is seen as helping, the latter is an attack.

    eg. Instead of "I don't see how this relates to that" or "How does this relate to that" you could say "I don't really get it... but do you mean that blah blah was blah blah blah?" In other words, help us on the road to clarification - we need it! I think INFPs value the helpfulness above everything else - I love it when people make an attempt to meet me halfway down the road to clarity. I tend to get lost - and even if you have no clue what we're talking about, we can get lost together!
    Last edited by sciski; 01-17-2008 at 08:07 AM. Reason: got lost on road to clarity.

  7. #47
    Senior Member marm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciski View Post
    INFJs are just brilliant at pointing out mistakes in INFP thinking... as long as they're friendly and helpful about it instead of on the attack (and we'll pick up - or think we're picking up - your intentions). I really appreciate those moments!

    So you just have to look like you really want to understand the INFP point of view, not look like you're picking things apart. So then when you correct us, you're helping to redirect individual threads of the interconnected INFP mind web, rather than cutting at the strands. The former is seen as helping, the latter is an attack.

    eg. Instead of "I don't see how this relates to that" or "How does this relate to that" you could say "I don't really get it... but do you mean that blah blah was blah blah blah?" In other words, help us on the road to clarification - we need it! I think INFPs value the helpfulness above everything else - I love it when people make an attempt to meet me halfway down the road to clarity. I tend to get lost - and even if you have no clue what we're talking about, we can get lost together!
    Yep. But I don't mind if someone picks my brain a bit because it does show they're interested. Endless picking will get annoying though.

    My best friends are INFJs and I'm used to them not following my leaps of intuition. INFJs have a much more grounded plodding thinking process. In my mind, everything is connected and I'll just switch tangent after tangent working it out as I go. Another thing I do is that whatever is on my mind I will connect to with whatever my friend is studying.

  8. #48
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Yep. But I don't mind if someone picks my brain a bit because it does show they're interested. Endless picking will get annoying though.

    My best friends are INFJs and I'm used to them not following my leaps of intuition. INFJs have a much more grounded plodding thinking process. In my mind, everything is connected and I'll just switch tangent after tangent working it out as I go. Another thing I do is that whatever is on my mind I will connect to with whatever my friend is studying.
    I don't mind random associations so much, I can usually figure those out without too much trouble. It's when they try to tell me what's right and wrong and expect me to agree without explanation that I get frustrated. If they're willing to just have a casual discussion, I'm more than happy to do that.

    One time the reason I got mad at an INFP was because I felt like they slammed the lid on a casual conversation I was having with some other friends because they introduced a value that expressed disdain for the topic. I was mad at them for breaking up my nice little conversation and condemning it for a reason I thought was invalid and inappropriate.

  9. #49
    Senior Member marm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I don't mind random associations so much, I can usually figure those out without too much trouble. It's when they try to tell me what's right and wrong and expect me to agree without explanation that I get frustrated. If they're willing to just have a casual discussion, I'm more than happy to do that.

    One time the reason I got mad at an INFP was because I felt like they slammed the lid on a casual conversation I was having with some other friends because they introduced a value that expressed disdain for the topic. I was mad at them for breaking up my nice little conversation and condemning it for a reason I thought was invalid and inappropriate.
    It doesn't sound like the type of thing I'd tend to do. I mostly keep my values to myself except when feeling particularly worked up for some reason. There are only a few subjects that can get me worked up like that. I'm very protective of my internal experience including my values and I don't share them much. When I do, I usually present them as ideas because that creates some distance from the actual value.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    INFP's just get angry if I don't get it or explain why I disagree. They even seem to expect me to see all of the value and immediately embrace it, after one instance of it being applied, and I often don't. Sometimes even if I agree with them, they get angry later on because I didn't see how a different situation fit into the same value, confused and not even seeing them as connected.

    Note that this is from experiences with a few that I've known. I don't know that this is typical... even if it is, I'd very much like to understand it, because I don't like having painful disagreements with them. I feel like I could learn more from them if I knew where they were coming from.
    Sounds like INFP with undeveloped inferior functions to give perspective and balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    My best friends are INFJs and I'm used to them not following my leaps of intuition. INFJs have a much more grounded plodding thinking process. In my mind, everything is connected and I'll just switch tangent after tangent working it out as I go. Another thing I do is that whatever is on my mind I will connect to with whatever my friend is studying.
    That is a shame that they don't appreciate your input. My husband I work best as a team if he shares his Ni and allows input from my Ne. He appreicates the Ne and is amazed that I can connect things he is too focused on his original idea to do so. The two can complement well I think.

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