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  1. #41
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Wink YESSS

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Finally, it was only two years ago that I finally realized that INFJs do a very poor job of reading what I don't express. (I don't know if ENFJs have better luck.) I always figured I was an open book to my INFJ friends, so it was quite the shock to realize that I not only wasn't, but that they found my inner depths completely unreadable.

    It was only much later I realized that some people need emotions to be expressed for them to be tangible. I can appreciate this viewpoint now, but in the past it was simply something I never considered.
    It is so weird to finally have someone else see what I couldn't put in words. Thanks, these threads are good stuff. I felt that for a long time in my gut but it is something you can't get mad at someone for, especially if they are genuine. But the thing is over too much time it becomes a problem that our gut picks up on, and I couldn't explain it.

    There is a book on this topic of ENFJ marriages, (I believe How to Stop Elderly Abuse- it is based on type, don't let the title scare you. It is the precursor to Power Dating Games: What's Important to Know About the Person You'll Marry by Anne Hart) and it says that ENFJ will resent Fi because it withholds affection and we ENFJ's won't admit or ask for it but we in fact do need it.

    All in all it is good to hear the human side of this, meaning it isn't because people don't care, and I am not stupid for doing what is best for myself. Which is really hard to do when it means hurting someone's feelings. It has really made me take a look at my needs and really view them as worthy, which I forget in my group leader status-no longer.
    Extroverted (E) 67.74% Introverted (I) 32.26%
    Intuitive (N) 51.72% Sensing (S) 48.28%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 69.44% Perceiving (P) 30.56%

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||||||| 83%
    so/sx/sp

  2. #42
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    its not about logic, its about how he feels. and, almost certainly, he feels like you are basically saying "this is too slow for me" or "I cant/dont/whatever accept your way of doing this" or something else to the general effect of "your way is inadequate for my needs"
    I see you point...even so is there no validity to my feelings and needs as well? I do respect and appreciate his feelings...very much as a matter-of-fact. The struggle is finding a place we can both be comfortable with. (as a side note I just want to be clear that "too slow = far away" so there is a difference in the amount of intamacy and physical and emotional closeness that each of us is comfortable with / desires at this time).

    PUBLIC NOTICE: UDog is awesome!
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
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    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  3. #43
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    I see you point...even so is there no validity to my feelings and needs as well? I do respect and appreciate his feelings...very much as a matter-of-fact. The struggle is finding a place we can both be comfortable with. (as a side note I just want to be clear that "too slow = far away" so there is a difference in the amount of intamacy and physical and emotional closeness that each of us is comfortable with / desires at this time).

    PUBLIC NOTICE: UDog is awesome!
    of course their is validity to your needs and feelingfs. like you said, its all about finding solutions that work for both of you

  4. #44
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    of course their is validity to your needs and feelingfs. like you said, its all about finding solutions that work for both of you
    Can we just come up with an answer to this on this thread? That would just solve all this. Thanks bye!


    Side note: Seems like ENFJ-INFP is one that both sides want to work generally.
    Extroverted (E) 67.74% Introverted (I) 32.26%
    Intuitive (N) 51.72% Sensing (S) 48.28%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 69.44% Perceiving (P) 30.56%

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||||||| 83%
    so/sx/sp

  5. #45
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    There is a book on this topic of ENFJ marriages, (I believe How to Stop Elderly Abuse- it is based on type, don't let the title scare you. It is the precursor to Power Dating Games: What's Important to Know About the Person You'll Marry by Anne Hart) and it says that ENFJ will resent Fi because it withholds affection and we ENFJ's won't admit or ask for it but we in fact do need it.
    It's a valid issue. I never intentionally withhold affection, since I find that love and caring are NOT bargaining chips when dealing with someone you are close to. However, even if I don't show it, I'm very vulnerable when I express myself to another person. It makes it challenging for me to make it a habit to be expressive all the time - or to become as good as you ENFJs - who have practiced it all your life.

    It takes effort from both people: Effort to express, and effort to remind.

    All in all it is good to hear the human side of this, meaning it isn't because people don't care, and I am not stupid for doing what is best for myself. Which is really hard to do when it means hurting someone's feelings. It has really made me take a look at my needs and really view them as worthy, which I forget in my group leader status-no longer.
    A surprising side effect is that by learning how to fill your own needs, you'll become better at that ENFJ thing of helping others fill theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    The struggle is finding a place we can both be comfortable with. (as a side note I just want to be clear that "too slow = far away" so there is a difference in the amount of intamacy and physical and emotional closeness that each of us is comfortable with / desires at this time).

    PUBLIC NOTICE: UDog is awesome!
    Aw, thanks! How did you know that I'm susceptible to unbridled flattery?

    If I oversimplify a bit, I think there are three different potential issues that hold INFPs back from being more expressive. Keep in mind that INFPs are more internalized by nature, though. These are just 3 situations where I find the lack of INFP expression to be a potentially valid issue with the INFP.

    1. We don't feel it. Our partner doesn't inspire our emotions. We simply aren't right for each other.

    2. We refuse or are too afraid to face certain emotions directly and honestly. INFPs are VERY good at compartmentalizing their emotions, and treating them almost as objects. This one gets complicated quickly, but the sum of it is that the INFP refuses to truly face whatever emotion is blocking them (for whatever reason). In my opinion, this is a bad sign for the friendship/relationship as well, as the INFP is digging in their heels and unable to try and grow beyond the sticking point. They'd rather see the world in their head than the world around them.

    3. Don't know how to / don't feel safe / are genuinely not that expressive, despite nothing holding them back. This is the option that holds the best shot, as long as both sides are willing to work at it. The main thing is that the INFP is willing to face whatever holds them back, is willing to learn to be more expressive, and the ENFJ is willing to give back what the INFP needs in turn.

    .... I just sort of threw that together. INFPs - if you disagree please feel free to chime in!

  6. #46
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    If I oversimplify a bit, I think there are three different potential issues that hold INFPs back from being more expressive. Keep in mind that INFPs are more internalized by nature, though. These are just 3 situations where I find the lack of INFP expression to be a potentially valid issue with the INFP.

    1. We don't feel it. Our partner doesn't inspire our emotions. We simply aren't right for each other.

    2. We refuse or are too afraid to face certain emotions directly and honestly. INFPs are VERY good at compartmentalizing their emotions, and treating them almost as objects. This one gets complicated quickly, but the sum of it is that the INFP refuses to truly face whatever emotion is blocking them (for whatever reason). In my opinion, this is a bad sign for the friendship/relationship as well, as the INFP is digging in their heels and unable to try and grow beyond the sticking point. They'd rather see the world in their than the world around them.

    3. Don't know how to / don't feel safe / are genuinely not that expressive, despite nothing holding them back. This is the option that holds the best shot, as long as both sides are willing to work at it. The main thing is that the INFP is willing to face whatever holds them back, is willing to learn to be more expressive, and the ENFJ is willing to give back when the INFP needs in turn.

    .... I just sort of threw that together. INFPs - if you disagree please feel free to chime in!
    Looks about right, though it's hard to feel safe under the light of a Cepheid variable. This lack of safety also can be doubled when all attempts to bridge the gap are ignored.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    Side note: Seems like ENFJ-INFP is one that both sides want to work generally.
    Agreed.
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  8. #48
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    Something that has been very difficult for me (but I am really trying to push past the internal friction of it) is initiating hangouts with my ENFJ friends. It feels weird and uncomfortable to be the one to suggest things... very vulnerable, very open to rejection. I guess I am afraid of appearing friendless and desperate.

    But I am glad I am pushing through these risks, even if the end result is a rejection. Sometimes people just clash and aren't meant to be friends I guess.
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    My experience with ENFJ's is that they appear to be close to everyone, because they are so friendly and listen to everyone else's problems, but really they are holding their own personal feelings very close to themselves and have a difficult time sharing something from inside themselves.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Default yep

    Sucks but it is true. But we want that one or two trustworthy life long friends we can share with.

    In the mean time helping others really does satisfy by allowing me to be loving while having no one to open up to.

    There is a thread on why-I believe we ENFJ's call it an extinction level problem when we let bad people in to the inner chamber.
    Extroverted (E) 67.74% Introverted (I) 32.26%
    Intuitive (N) 51.72% Sensing (S) 48.28%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 69.44% Perceiving (P) 30.56%

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||||||| 83%
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