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[MBTI General] NF's not standing NT's

Vamp

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It depends on the maturity of both partners. Those who feel the need to display every single negative NT/NF trait in spades at once just to irk others are not mature.
 

tkae.

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It depends.

I've met some INTJs that I could have hung out with for hours and had the time of my life!

I've met some INTJs that made me cry.

I don't think I've met any INTPs that ever bothered me.

But I've met ENTJs that were awesome, and some that made me feel like shit.

With ENTJs, it depends on how much E and J they have. With INTJs, it depends on how much TJ they have. ENTPs... idk. I've never met any I didn't like, but I've never met any I liked either.

Like someone said, it depends on their maturity and their experience with NFs. I've learned not to have opinions until I hear them talk though. Some mean well, but just don't know how to act around NFs. Some are great. But then others hate NFs and actively antagonize them.

You just gotta find the right ones :blush:
 

skylights

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Fair enough. A main source of friction with two ENFPs I know was that they'd jump to generalizations on limited, very subjective information and get mad when called on it. I chalked it up to immaturity.

haha, it's funny you mentioned this, because this is admittedly true for me and a source of conflict between me and the two INTPs i live with. but it's really a two-ways street, because INTPs can ignore subjective interpretations sometimes too, and miss the real impacts they have.

for example, recently my dad (INTP) came home frustrated from work, and immediately pointed out the one dirty utensil in the kitchen i'd cleaned that day. as i learned later, he was actually just curious why it was out and it caught his attention, but i picked up on his huge emotional current of frustration and thought it was being directed at me (which it was, though not intentionally) and was pissed off that he fixated on the one dirty item in the kitchen i had worked hard to clean. it was a mistake on both our parts, really. he was ignoring the emotion he was communicating and i was overemphasizing the emotion he was communicating.

i actually get along very well with some NTs... INTJs especially. from easiest-hardest relationships it usually goes: INTJ, ENTP, INTP, ENTJ. ENTJs usually come off very strong to me!
 

Amargith

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haha, it's funny you mentioned this, because this is admittedly true for me and a source of conflict between me and the two INTPs i live with. but it's really a two-ways street, because INTPs can ignore subjective interpretations sometimes too, and miss the real impacts they have.

for example, recently my dad (INTP) came home frustrated from work, and immediately pointed out the one dirty utensil in the kitchen i'd cleaned that day. as i learned later, he was actually just curious why it was out and it caught his attention, but i picked up on his huge emotional current of frustration and thought it was being directed at me (which it was, though not intentionally) and was pissed off that he fixated on the one dirty item in the kitchen i had worked hard to clean. it was a mistake on both our parts, really. he was ignoring the emotion he was communicating and i was overemphasizing the emotion he was communicating.

i actually get along very well with some NTs... INTJs especially. from easiest-hardest relationships it usually goes: INTJ, ENTP, INTP, ENTJ. ENTJs usually come off very strong to me!

:doh: I had this convo yesterday with my INTJ. I *know* after this long that when he does that, it's out of curiosity coz the rest 'makes sense' to him (aka it's clean, or whatever and fits together, that one object just stands out to him). I know that this is how he works, logically. But goddamn, I'm not able to entirely disable my emotional reaction when I just did something that cost a lot of effort and show it to him proudly and he, in my eyes, nitpicks about the *one* thing that isn't perfect. It drives me crazy for one second, then I disable it. Unfortunately, when he gets that way 20 times a day, it tends to stack so I end up wanting to throw a skillet at his head :steam:
 

Coriolis

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:doh: I had this convo yesterday with my INTJ. I *know* after this long that when he does that, it's out of curiosity coz the rest 'makes sense' to him (aka it's clean, or whatever and fits together, that one object just stands out to him). I know that this is how he works, logically. But goddamn, I'm not able to entirely disable my emotional reaction when I just did something that cost a lot of effort and show it to him proudly and he, in my eyes, nitpicks about the *one* thing that isn't perfect. It drives me crazy for one second, then I disable it. Unfortunately, when he gets that way 20 times a day, it tends to stack so I end up wanting to throw a skillet at his head :steam:
I do the same as your INTJ, and my poor INTP SO often does not take it as well as you seem to. Has your INTJ been able to curb these observations at all? I have been trying, but with little luck. As you describe, these things just stand out like sore thumbs and I can't not notice them. Mess and clutter just grate sometimes, like the proverbial nails on a chalkboard. My SO deserves better, though.
 

looney toon

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it really depends what nt you're talking about. i mean every intj i know is like a walking talking block of ice but entps can be pretty awesome. it depends.;)
 

Amargith

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I do the same as your INTJ, and my poor INTP SO often does not take it as well as you seem to. Has your INTJ been able to curb these observations at all? I have been trying, but with little luck. As you describe, these things just stand out like sore thumbs and I can't not notice them. Mess and clutter just grate sometimes, like the proverbial nails on a chalkboard. My SO deserves better, though.

He's pretty good about it in public, with other people. He just tends to hold his tongue, not have expectations and if they ask go 'It's not bad :)'

But with me..he gets to be himself, and I do want him to be that way. And, since I understand it, I will either tease him with it (which makes him fluster ow so cutely as he *knows* he should learn to word it better), or I'll let it slide. It's only when he's been particularly frequent about it, or it's a sensitive spot or I'm stressed that I get annoyed at it, or sigh at it. And then..well, it's his turn to understand and comfort me and reassure that he didn't mean it that way. Then we smile, giggle, or have a little venting tiff, and it passes :)

I also tried to teach him the sandwich feedback. Say something good first, then go 'And [Insert comment that you just have got to toss out there], then finish with 'overall, I think it's good coz of this and this'. It's a lot easier to swallow for people. He at times does it well...at times when he says something without thinking he'll forget :)

Realize that people *need* to hear that they did good. Especially if they put in a lot of effort. And realize that the world is filled with good things as well as things that are out of order and need fixing. It's also a lot more fun to sometimes focus on the good, instead of focusing on fixing the bad..trust me. At least enjoy the good for a second..the fixing of the bad can wait a bit ;)
 

INTP

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Realize that people *need* to hear that they did good. Especially if they put in a lot of effort. And realize that the world is filled with good things as well as things that are out of order and need fixing. It's also a lot more fun to sometimes focus on the good, instead of focusing on fixing the bad..trust me. At least enjoy the good for a second..the fixing of the bad can wait a bit ;)

its just that i think many int's seem to think doing stuff well as a standard and when some part of the job isnt done well, its basically same as to us as a job not completed. leaving a one plate bit dirty after washing dishes is quite the same to us as leaving screw out of bikes wheel after fixing it, the screw isnt attached yet/dirt havent been removed yet.

its not that we only expect this from others, its more that we expect this from ourselves and project the same standards onto others. i(and hopefully other int's) know its wrong to pick out every detail that is wrong in what others did, but this kind of mentality is so big part of the way we think that sometimes we can forget that it might offend other people because this kind of things come to us so naturally.

its not that we(or atleast i) dont see the good things, its just that if there is something wrong, it stands out more strongly. think about a single plate that is cleaned perfectly only from other half, but the other half is still very dirty/not cleaned at all. would you say that wow the other side of this plate is cleaned very well or would you think/say that the plate is only cleaned from the other side? i bet you wouldnt give compliments on the clean side and i bet it would feel weird to you if others would want you to compliment the clean side and you would most likely forget to compliment the clean side sometimes when you see the other side every time that is still dirty. well this is kinda the way we look at the whole job that is done.

when we are the ones doing the job this kind of thinking can be a very good thing, but with every good thing there is also a downside and the downside in this is when other people are doing the job. its like yin and yang

we should work on this flaw, but being quite absent minded, we sometimes forget, not to mention that it can be quite hard to change the fundamentals of your way of thinking we sometimes forget.
 

Amargith

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See, I understand all of that, but ya know what? Doing the job perfectly just *isn't* that important *all the time*.

The plate thing is a nice way of illustrating your point, but it's not the right example for what I was saying. No one is going to ask you 'Look at the nice clean plate you have in front of you, isn't it grand?' And then beam with pride. To then have you turn around the plate and have it still sticky with all kinds of gunk. For that matter, if hypothetically they're asking you to indeed admire the plate and there's a little bit left on the other side of it, try and ignore that. It's something that's not important (as it's not on the hygienic part of the plate, where the food will be), and it will just ruin the mood. Admire the part they meant for you to see. Judge that part. Forget the little detail that just isn't up to your precious standard :alttongue:

The second reason one could ask for your opinion is when they're in the process of doing something, and asking you to see if the work they've done up to this point is up to standard. At that point, look at the part that's been done and realize what part of the process they're in. If it's still a draft, leave some leeway for polishing, imagine where it'll go, or for that matter, ask. Then you can actually give insightful and constructive feedback on how you can build on what they've done. That's why they're asking, afterall.

The third reason one could ask, is when the project indeed is done, but they're unsure of the result. At that time, and only at that time, are you to use your full standard on *all* of it. And even at that point, realize the effort they've put in. Genuinly comment on the effort, regardless of the result. That way, your comments will, once again, be constructive. If you don't, you can be right all you want about it not being up to standard, but the comment will be in vain as it is unlikely to be well-received and therefore used in the way you intended it.

If not asked for an opinion, plz, plz, plz *think* before you blurt shit out. If you must say something, form it as a question. Ask and be genuine in your curiosity as to why something *seems* to be out of place.

I love your efficiency and bluntness, especially in a time of crisis, when there's no time for niceties, and things indeed need to be done *now*. When it actually matters. I don't care if you curse, shout or call me incompetent at such a time, as long as you pull it off and I will follow your every lead at that point.

However, I still wanna throw a skillet at your head though when you do it at times when social relationships are taking priority and the thing you're commenting on just aint that big a deal.

I guess it's just about switching perspectives and recognizing which one suits the situation best :)

For that matter...not meeting a standard can be quite entertaining and fun. It can be quirky, and it can lead to new unexpected discoveries, or just a whole bunch of giggles. Perfection becomes boring and stale, after a while. In other words: Lighten up, sugar ;)

Also, never bet on what I would compliment on. I give genuine compliments about the oddest things as I truly appreciate the weirdest stuff :devil:

That is all.
 

Moiety

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One thing I like about NTs - the promise that if you present your argument logically, you can actually convince them of something.

That and they have no problem dismantling human nature and acknowledge the selfishness in the altruism and the altruism in the selfishness. Nor the cruelty in the subconscious reasons for a good action. There is a fairness in a certain detachment which I appreciate immensely.

Which doesn't prevent an NT from reading this and think I'm full of shit of course :p
 

Coriolis

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^^ Yes. I do tend to look at jobs as either "done" or "not done". I have no patience for 90% solutions, e.g. collecting the trash from around the house and putting it by the garage door, but not into the actual trashcan. To me, for a few more seconds' effort, you can open the door, put it in the can, and be completely done and not have to come back to it again later.
 

Amargith

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True, but it could also be handy to just stash things for a sec as you rush off to do something else that demands your attention that *instant*. And, as it is human to sometimes forget stuff, the trash could stand there for a little longer till it catches your eye again and you actually have the time for it. To then have someone comment on the fact that it's standing there and it shouldn't be is just...yeah. I already know that. That information is useless to me. To me, your comment at that time makes me just keep the trash there another week, just to piss you off. Just a friendly warning :alttongue:

The point is...I *know* that that detail still needs tending to. No, I do not need you pointing it out to me. Just tell me what you think about the entire room I just cleared to please you, and tried to rid of all the junk that was collected there ;)

And you know what would be even more awesome? You *not* commenting on it, appreciating the effort I put in and then without saying anything, taking care of that trash yourself. That's just...superb. It shows that you appreciate the effort I put in, and are willing to help me out carry it out to perfection. Win-win.
 

Coriolis

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And you know what would be even more awesome? You *not* commenting on it, appreciating the effort I put in and then without saying anything, taking care of that trash yourself. That's just...superb. It shows that you appreciate the effort I put in, and are willing to help me out carry it out to perfection. Win-win.
This is often what I do. As I see it, there are 3 options: (1) wait for my SO to remember to finish the job; (2) tell my SO, and waste time and energy on the inevitable argument; and (3) do it myself. Since (1) and (2) are generally unacceptable, my choice is clear. I only speak up now if there are unusually many things like this in a short time.
 

Amargith

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This is often what I do. As I see it, there are 3 options: (1) wait for my SO to remember to finish the job; (2) tell my SO, and waste time and energy on the inevitable argument; and (3) do it myself. Since (1) and (2) are generally unacceptable, my choice is clear. I only speak up now if there are unusually many things like this in a short time.

:hug::hug::hug:

I like you :D
 

Coriolis

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I love your efficiency and bluntness, especially in a time of crisis, when there's no time for niceties, and things indeed need to be done *now*. When it actually matters. I don't care if you curse, shout or call me incompetent at such a time, as long as you pull it off and I will follow your every lead at that point.

However, I still wanna throw a skillet at your head though when you do it at times when social relationships are taking priority and the thing you're commenting on just aint that big a deal.

I guess it's just about switching perspectives and recognizing which one suits the situation best.
Somehow I missed this part, but it is so accurate. I think part of my problem is that I seem to operate in this mode most of the time; it is very hard to get me out of it. I'm rarely in situations where social relationships are a priority. Or maybe I am, and just don't realize it. Aarrrrgghh.
 

skylights

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Somehow I missed this part, but it is so accurate. I think part of my problem is that I seem to operate in this mode most of the time; it is very hard to get me out of it. I'm rarely in situations where social relationships are a priority. Or maybe I am, and just don't realize it. Aarrrrgghh.

lol, just ask an FJ, social relationships are always a priority! :tongue:

i get NTJs better than NTPs. Te makes sense. it's the way i go about things when i have to be productive. and yeah i think NTJs really need to chill out more sometimes, but that's okay, i really need to buckle down more sometimes.

for whatever reason INTPs i think are very smart but also generally frustrate me, while ISTPs i get along with much more easily. dunno why.
 

Amargith

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Somehow I missed this part, but it is so accurate. I think part of my problem is that I seem to operate in this mode most of the time; it is very hard to get me out of it. I'm rarely in situations where social relationships are a priority. Or maybe I am, and just don't realize it. Aarrrrgghh.

Hehe. At any time, it's a simple question as to whether or not the thing you're getting pissy about is worth more than the relationship with the person you're putting pressure on at that particular time. A simple equation. Surely your smart INTJ brain would know how to calculate that :devil:
 

Torai

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NTP's are really awesome when they develop Extroverted Feeling. That's all I have to say.
 
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