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  1. #11
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    By this logic there is no good or evil. There is no message. This is the anti-message, something Satan would use to persuade you to commit the most impure acts
    Are you stating a belief in absolute truth?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    I'm writing to PeaceBaby because she possesses the rare quality of being able to withhold judgment until further data can be obtained.
    .... you're cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    And you came all the way to this side of the electric fence to plant this straw man?
    You can't recognize my prods as just a means to provoke a reaction, to gage where you're coming from? I wanted to see what you would do with it.

    At this point, I've learned:
    1. You think your insights are far more unique than they really are.
    2. You're not open to engaging new points of view -- you're just here to dazzle people with your "insights," acquire some attention for yourself, and feel good by twisting around and dismissing alternate views.

    I do seriously engage people who I sense want to communicate and work together to explore a topic, but I'm thinking here it's not worth the investment.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    .... you're cute.
    Yeah, but then they grow up...

    *returns to watching where this is going*
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #14
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Are you stating a belief in absolute truth?
    actually i thought he was saying the complete opposite..that the anti-message would be that there IS absolute truth (good and evil). i think this is the warning to future Messiahs. that's how I see it, maybe because that's what i think so that how i'm reading it
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  5. #15
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Someone has been reading Nietzsche...

  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    For in order to bestow this gift he will have to implicitly elevate himself from a position of supposed equality to his peers to an elevated "plateau of superiority", from which to hand "down" this knowledge, and down is the only direction it will appear to move towards, if high is the message revealed in it.
    The assumption that there can be relative worth requires a belief that individuals have more control than they likely have. Each person is a snapshot of humanity from a particular vantage point. If your vantage point is elevated and bestowing knowledge from a superior position, then that is not "you" but simply what humanity looks like when subjected to all the parameters that are used to define you. When humanity is subjected to another set of experiences and genetics, it can be a foolish person, or someone cruel.

    Our best qualities are given to us either through nature or nurture. We appear to make choices, but if the is any freedom or ownership of those choices, it likely occurs within a narrow range, if at all. If you have superior enlightenment to hand down to fools, then it is not your own. It is the result of what humanity naturally becomes when handed the set of parameters that went into building who you are. There is no "handing down" when one comes to a complete realization of this.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #17
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    He whosoever harbors a spark of divinity in his core, manifesting itself through sporadic but driven action, piercing through the dense and dark mediocrity of humankind's self flattery and deception, shall do good to reflect, and ponder.

    That not one word was courageously spoken in times past that challenged the established social order and did not consequently elicit the madden blabber and pestiferous indignation of the lower layers of society.

    For all human interaction is ultimately a game of self defense, and the prevailing strategy that of rooking one's position within the safe harbor of consensus, and any violation of it is perceived as an existential threat to the social organism itself.

    He whosoever believes, firmly in his heart, to hold a gem of truth, so high above him that he is to be the carrier, not the originator, of its message and value, will do good to remember, that in bestowing this precious and rare gift upon the bickering fools, the savage and the uneducated, the hedonists and oblivious, fierce resentment will be the only reward.

    For in order to bestow this gift he will have to implicitly elevate himself from a position of supposed equality to his peers to an elevated "plateau of superiority", from which to hand "down" this knowledge, and down is the only direction it will appear to move towards, if high is the message revealed in it.

    The cruficixion of Jesus of Nazareth is a metaphor for the resentment of humankind towards the bringer of a higher moral framework.

    Exposure to such a framework will be uncomfortable to most, as it will coerce them to face the inadequacy and pettiness of their own goals and minds - for this they will fight fiercely, not against the idea but against its carrier. They will fight to punish him, for having brought an uncomfortable truth. For indirectly diminishing their private and public worth.

    And lastly, because whilst they may be used to seeing someone be richer, more powerful, happier or more serene, they just cannot accept the final blow dealt to their ego by seeing someone who, under the same tragic existential conditions, has exceeded them in compassion and good character.

    For this reason one's public image is to be managed meticulously, and one's facade of humility must be painstakingly crafted and must permeate all one does or says.

    A bringer of a higher moral message must be humble. A poorest of the poor. Or, one who inflicts poverty voluntarily onto himself.

    Members of the lower layers of society must always find comfort in the fact that they are in some way better off than such a person, that they are respected, that his demeanor is deferential to them, and that they are in no way threatened by his existence.

    Persuading them of this ought to be simple, for simple are their minds and motivations and great are their vanity and their desire for flattery.
    Jesus of Nazareth was exactly what you said but got rejected because of status within the Jewish community. They saw his poor upbringing and made it into a joke.

    The word "messiahs" are usually understood in the term of bringing solitude and change to those that are in most dire needs of it though, the masses. So therefore most "messiahs" will bring the change best if those he are adressing can feel equal to this person. While still seeing him as someone that is profound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    .... you're cute.



    You can't recognize my prods as just a means to provoke a reaction, to gage where you're coming from? I wanted to see what you would do with it.

    At this point, I've learned:
    1. You think your insights are far more unique than they really are.
    2. You're not open to engaging new points of view -- you're just here to dazzle people with your "insights," acquire some attention for yourself, and feel good by twisting around and dismissing alternate views.

    I do seriously engage people who I sense want to communicate and work together to explore a topic, but I'm thinking here it's not worth the investment.
    Totally agreed

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Are you stating a belief in absolute truth?
    Truth is a human construct. Every person needs to have a tentative, always improving truth and they are entitled to call it absolute, provided they are willing to challenge it at times. What I see instead is moral atrophy, and people throwing out all their experiences at the first sign of conflict or a conflicting coherent system. We should be makers of meaning, not destroyers.

  9. #19
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Someone has been reading Nietzsche...
    Could also be Thomas Carlyle and his theories of Hero-worship.

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