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  1. #71
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Yet if you look carefully you'll see that they are actually evil as we dont have free will and all the things that prompt us to act are evil in themselves.
    An absence of free will and a capacity for evil are mutually exclusive. Things within ourselves, over which we have no concious control, are not evil, they just are. Evil depends on conciousness.
    I'll get you my pretty, and your little hermit crab too!

  2. #72
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    I don't either.
    Let's do this thing.

  3. #73
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushranger View Post
    An absence of free will and a capacity for evil are mutually exclusive.
    Absolutely not. I don't really believe in free will per se, but I absolutely believe in the existance of evil.
    Let's do this thing.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    The judgment of people as basically good or basically evil seems like a pretty... well, F-oriented thing to do.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    In regards to the OP though I am late here are 2 quotes that I find to be true. Sorry that I cannot debate philosophy as this is the first time I earnestly tried to read it-so don't trying "Kanting me" . I picked these out for this discussion. I think you attribute too much naivety to NFs honestly SW.

    Reflections on the human condition-Eric Hoffer
    Good and evil grow up together and are bound in an equilibrium that cannot be sundered. The most we can do is try to tilt the equilibrium toward the good.

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    In the alchemy of man's soul almost all noble attributes-courage, honor, love,hope,faith, duty, loyalty etc.- can be transmuted into ruthlessness. Compassion alone stands apart from the continuous traffic between good and evil proceeding within us. Compassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless.

    Nature has no compassion. It is, in the words of William Blake, "a creation that groans, living on death; where fish and bird and beast and tree and metal and stone live by devouring." Nature accepts no excuses and the only punishment it knows is death.
    __________________________________________________ ______________

    I only bring these in to show what I believe in. I believe human nature (standing alone) is neither good nor evil. I as an NF have natural leanings towards being compassionate. NFs understand human nature as surely as an NT.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  6. #76
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Absolutely not. I don't really believe in free will per se, but I absolutely believe in the existance of evil.
    Doesn't being capable of evil require agency? Or do you mean an evil independant of the human experience?

  7. #77
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Doesn't being capable of evil require agency? Or do you mean an evil independant of the human experience?
    I suppose I believe there is a thing that makes choices you could call you (but not the thing which you'd normally identify as "you"), those choices are the direct result of forces in the world, and that there is generally enough agreement on the quality of some actions that you could call them very evil.

    It's not that I don't believe in choices, it's that I don't really believe that the conventional idea of a "youness" is what is making choices, but rather, a complicated set of interactions which we can't possibly be fully aware of that result in a choice made.

    Subsaquently, the quality of that choice can be judged by an individual or a set of individuals.
    Let's do this thing.

  8. #78
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushranger View Post
    An absence of free will and a capacity for evil are mutually exclusive. Things within ourselves, over which we have no concious control, are not evil, they just are. Evil depends on conciousness.
    'We' are not evil. It is the stuff that makes us act that is.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    If she really did this... dont you think that would just look horrible on her part in front of her supervisors and colleagues? and if they werent there... she would be ashamed to look you in the eyes again if she ran away..
    LOL. You've obviously never been a patient in the hospital! Nurses do that all the time without a bit of shame.

  10. #80
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Dearest NFs?

    How do you go about convincing yourselves that it is not really there?
    Where on earth do you get this unrealistic notions that we pretend radical evil does not exists? Some of us may believe in "naive fairytale" goodness, and some of us may not. But I think the key point you missed is that life isn't so definitively black and white. Evil intent exists, so does good intent... however extreme cases are rare incidents indeed. Most people have both the desire to be selfish and giving/caring. I don't see why you have to isolate good to be absolute pure altruism. Because if you do so, radical evil can only be about inflicting harm on other people at the cost personal expense without even gaining emotional satisfaction... As Cafe mentioned such definitions are way too restricting. The probability of either event is so low that you might as well say it is highly unlikely one of us will encounter it. So we work more or less with people who have both good and evil intents with them. Kind of like the interpretation behind chinese "ying yang"... "Within all good there is evil and within all evil there is good." If it suits us to value the positive side of people more than the negative then it is our right. We acknowledge the existence of both, but we perfer to focus more on one than the other. Besides... what's so bad in deriving personal pleasures in helping others? Intents that benefit self need not always harm others. If both sides gain something out of the interaction... why not have it? It's still "good" in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Again... so many of you NFs say that life is more than an absurd tragedy... yet noone can support that..
    Does that help explain why life isn't an absurd tregedy? Life is only a tregedy if you insists radical evil is out to get you. Of course that is not the case.

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