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  1. #51
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    How does evil exist w/o free will? Wouldn't the animal model of behavior be complete for assessing human beings then? How would my initial lighthearted response about feeling kindness towards a violent critter not be spot on in describing human behavior w/o free will?
    Yes this was a very good catch. Determinism necessitates an extinction of ethics. That is true, and I am a nihilist.

    Virtue Ethics are impossible, we are only taking credit for actions that we did not decide to carry out with. What we understand for the 'self' to be is not evil, it is the urges that fuel it up are. We are at their mercy...

  2. #52
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    When you are up poop creek without a paddle that one good act in ten is a mighty welcome sight and I, for one, am not going to fuss about it not being more.
    Again... so many of you NFs say that life is more than an absurd tragedy... yet noone can support that..

  3. #53
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Again... so many of you NFs say that life is more than an absurd tragedy... yet noone can support that..
    IMO, life is a comic tragedy, with little scenes of inspiration sprinkled here and there. I'm aware of the darkness, but I do not refuse to see the light because of it.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #54
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    IMO, life is a comic tragedy, with little scenes of inspiration sprinkled here and there. I'm aware of the darkness, but I do not refuse to see the light because of it.
    Maybe light was only an illusion... and it shall evanesce as our child-like innocence once did?

  5. #55
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Compassion indeed is the source of all good... yet once more...genuine compassion... one that is not inspired by our selfish urges is extraordinarily rare..
    What matters most is that it exists at all. That it 'can' exist means everything imo. There is more good and beauty than we often notice. Kindness is quieter than cruelty. Just like sweet smells are softer than rank oders.

    That is not to say that good is weaker than evil. You know Nietzsche's use of the dandelion as a metaphor for self and conquest? It is interesting that the dandelion is only an unwanted weed in the eyes of human beings. It provides more nutrition than ordinary grass, it is stronger, hardier, a more reliable food source for many creatures. Nature has made a place for the dandelion because it has more to offer for its existence.

    Human beings are fragile and temporary. If we don't find ways to contribute, nature will favor other creatures who can. If we do not respect balance, we will cease in favor of balance. Nature's laws stabilize in the long run.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #56
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Maybe light was only an illusion... and it shall evanesce as our child-like innocence once did?
    I was not innocent in my childhood. My life did not allow such luxuries. I am not innocent now. I've seen too much to be so. To deny that there is any light at all is to be as impervious to reality as you seem to believe I am.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #57
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    What matters most is that it exists at all. That it 'can' exist means everything imo. There is more good and beauty than we often notice. Kindness is quieter than cruelty. Just like sweet smells are softer than rank oders.

    .
    I will be very grateful to you if you come up with at least one entity to represent good and beauty... or at least one specie of that... and most of all manage to have it stand up to criticism..Because I want to believe in it... I really do..

  8. #58
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I was not innocent in my childhood. My life did not allow such luxuries. I am not innocent now. I've seen too much to be so. To deny that there is any light at all is to be as impervious to reality as you seem to believe I am.
    I am saying that there will be somethign that you will initially perceive to be good, but you will not realize that it is actually evil in disguise unless you think it through very carefully and thoroughly.

  9. #59
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post

    Yeah. You keep telling yourself that.
    Just because you dont like this does not mean that it is not logical. You dont know if its logical or not because you cant do dispassionate thinking anyways.

    I'd be pretty impressed if I saw you do that just for once..

  10. #60
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I am saying that there will be somethign that you will initially perceive to be good, but you will not realize that it is actually evil in disguise unless you think it through very carefully and thoroughly.
    Give some examples, if you please.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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