User Tag List

First 21011121314 Last

Results 111 to 120 of 154

  1. #111
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Yet all actions, no matter how good they are lead to greater evil than good in the long run. Death is a great allegory for that. Everything we do, we do unto our eventual demise.
    I agree that all actions leads to increase in entropy... which eventually will lead to energy death in the universe. (Assuming we just go by the Big Bang Theory rather than the Collapse & Expansion one) But doing nothing also leads to death in us just the same... so why sit there, do nothing, think of nothing and be bored out of our minds?

  2. #112
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENfP
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,219

    Default

    I don't convince myself it's not there. I just see it as something we all have in common! Didn't humans invent morality? If we're all evil TOGETHER, then we could just say we're all WONDERFUL creatures, and it wouldn't change a thing~..
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  3. #113
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The reason why everything we do is evil because we are unconsciously driven by an urge to keep on living. If we lived in paradise, where there were no threats to our being, we would not need to worry about what we need to do to survive. We could then easily be concerned with the welfare of others instead of our own. And then and only then will evil be rendered impossible, because we would not need to be selfish in order to just live.
    heh. I had this idea a few years back.
    1. Humans possess natural drives towards self-survival and self-gratification (inborn). One provides the hardware to live, the other provides the software (loosely).
    2. While this instinct is useful when we are babies, as we get older, it can become detrimental to ourselves and others, in terms of psychological and spiritual health. Both are short-term instincts, and we have to think long-term. These drives are become more and more "selfish" as we age and begin to take responsibility for those younger than us, who need us for their own maturation.
    3. The Christian God (or perhaps other god concepts as well) offers both physical resurrection as well as fully-realized fulfillment....REGARDLESS of how we happen to feel in the short term. Because God is omnipotent, we do not have to fear death (i.e., the survival instinct); because God is good, we do not have to fear going unfulfilled, ultimately (the self-gratification instinct).
    4. Thus, we are free to give to others / sacrifice / whatever else, rather than being enslaved by our own innate and ultimately selfish desires.

    I'd point out that it's a fallacy to always assume these two drives are BAD/EVIL. They exist for a reason... and originally it was a good one. They simply easily become distorted, or take priority over things they have no business taking priority over.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #114
    Senior Member Alienclock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Dearest NFs?

    How do you go about convincing yourselves that it is not really there?
    If I believed in radical good then I would have to believe in radical evil. There is no good and evil. Both are nonsense. There is that which we like and that which we do not like. Thats it. Good and evil are pure subjectivity and only as worthwhile as you say they are.:rolli:

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Yet all actions, no matter how good they are lead to greater evil than good in the long run. Death is a great allegory for that. Everything we do, we do unto our eventual demise.
    Yes. So by your own definition, proving the illegitimacy of good, (encourages others to give up on it) a person who proves this could be considered radically evil. Or even the doo do doo doo, the Antichrist. So, in the face of all of this evil, all of this pointlessness, how does a person STOP themselves from committing whatever they consider a crime or evil... Especially considering its all going to fall apart anyway?

  5. #115
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    If I believed in radical good then I would have to believe in radical evil. There is no good and evil. Both are nonsense. There is that which we like and that which we do not like. Thats it. Good and evil are pure subjectivity and only as worthwhile as you say they are.:rolli:
    All right, let's throw out the words "good" and "evil" since they're so laden with baggage.

    Let's instead talk about "that which is most beneficial in terms of healthy maturation for people" versus "that which erodes at healthy maturation if taken to its ultimate conclusion."

    I think those positions can be a little more defensible, rather than simply saying all morality is a matter of preference. We know that certain behaviors and attitudes contribute in some way to growth, while others are erosive/corrosive regardless of personal feelings.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #116
    Senior Member Alienclock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    All right, let's throw out the words "good" and "evil" since they're so laden with baggage.

    Let's instead talk about "that which is most beneficial in terms of healthy maturation for people" versus "that which erodes at healthy maturation if taken to its ultimate conclusion."

    I think those positions can be a little more defensible, rather than simply saying all morality is a matter of preference. We know that certain behaviors and attitudes contribute in some way to growth, while others are erosive/corrosive regardless of personal feelings.
    Yeah, thats way better. I would say that there are beliefs, behaviors that are bad for the individual, and then bad for the species as a whole.

    I would also say that extreme states of unhealthiness do exist, and the attitude or the idea that all life is pointless and inherently going to end in destruction, and all acts will end only in our death is probably one of them(one of those extreme states of un-health).

    Then again, whats terrible for human kind might just be wonderful for the earth... So what is would be considered Not Good for Growth in that situation? You know I read somewhere that there was an extinction that happened in the oceans, where all these little thingy things died off, (went extinct) and their death farts are what caused oxygen to be released into the enviorment... if they could think, at least one of their kind would have been like, the end of the world is coming! Judgement day, all is sin! But obviously we are here now, breathing in their death farts, living life... What an act of great generosity and extreme sacrifice. How kind of them!

  7. #117
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    Then again, whats terrible for human kind might just be wonderful for the earth... So what is would be considered Not Good for Growth in that situation? You know I read somewhere that there was an extinction that happened in the oceans, where all these little thingy things died off, (went extinct) and their death farts are what caused oxygen to be released into the enviorment... if they could think, at least one of their kind would have been like, the end of the world is coming! Judgement day, all is sin! But obviously we are here now, breathing in their death farts, living life... What an act of great generosity and extreme sacrifice. How kind of them!
    Very true. So let's arbitrarily confine our sphere of life to include simply the human species and what is most typically beneficial for its members, since that's mostly the sphere that human beings prioritize on a day-to-day basis.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #118
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Very true. So let's arbitrarily confine our sphere of life to include simply the human species and what is most typically beneficial for its members, since that's mostly the sphere that human beings prioritize on a day-to-day basis.
    I'm just curious how the definition comes about; could the individual not claim the same thing? (And does it not also imply that what is moral is irrelevent outside the sphere - ie: torturing animals is ok as it is outside your sphere... torturing another human is ok as it is outside my sphere?)

  9. #119
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm just curious how the definition comes about; could the individual not claim the same thing? (And does it not also imply that what is moral is irrelevent outside the sphere - ie: torturing animals is ok as it is outside your sphere... torturing another human is ok as it is outside my sphere?)
    [thrown wrench shatters beautiful progression of conversation... sigh]

    Yep, good objections.

    I think one could claim there is a natural biological distinction simply from the perspective of sentience / species between humans and Other, but not really a substantial biological distinction among humans, the line between us and the rest of the world is not as really arbitrary but has some foundation.

    But I think the second part is more interesting.... Perhaps torturing other humans could be seen as wrong if humanity is inclusive, but what ABOUT animals? Especially in situations where the torturing won't really impact the survival of humanity at all? Does any morality filter over in how we deal with things not involving HUMAN growth?

    Or even a simple matter -- What about the eating of meat? Or plants? Obviously for people to flourish, something else must die. Is this morally defensibly, or is it "evil"?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #120
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    440

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    death farts

    Sounds like the name of a geeky metal band to me....


    *wanders out of thread before she derails it any further...*

Similar Threads

  1. Essence of Human nature
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-16-2013, 11:10 PM
  2. Is Dark Metal the root of evil in the axis of Fi ?
    By entropie in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-27-2010, 07:51 AM
  3. Is there such a thing as Human Nature?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-06-2010, 12:07 AM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-09-2009, 01:18 PM
  5. Radical Revolutionaries in Elementary Education
    By Charmed Justice in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-06-2009, 12:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO