[ENFJ] Oh God, being an ENFJ...

[toast]

I fell madly in love with someone who was my polar opposite. My intensity overwhelmed and pushed him away. My attempts at withholding those intense feelings made me as insecure as him. My constant probing about us made me miss the chances I had to find out what was really going on all along.

And just when I finally figure out that he has Asperger's and that there ARE specific things I could do & say to make it work between us, I start feeling so much better but it's too late. He gives up and ends it out of nowhere, smashing me down after I've been building myself up again. Now we are right back where we started because he wants to be close to me but can't do much about it & I can't dim or control these new feelings of abandonment, anxiety, mistrust, etc. so that I can be the happy, fearless, sweet girl he liked in the first place.

I feel like I am responsible for everything. I've known all along that "cooling down" was the only way to make it work, but I just can't. I never can for long. Even now it seems so obvious that if I could be patient and levelheaded and gentle that I could be close to him and be happy. But I try as hard as I can and then the feelings overwhelm me again. I feel like an ocean trying to keep itself calm. I'm so tired of it. I care too much to stay in control without feedback or security. I've always wanted to be close to someone like him. I didn't really ever know what "peace" felt like before him. Now, not only do I feel like its not possible with him, but with anyone who is that way at all. Anyone who has the ability to stabilize me is never going to want to handle me. And what's worse, I can't even be friends with the person I love so much. All I can do is pretend when I'm sad and try to savor when I'm feeling happy. I just want to be able to be myself without feeling selfish.

Has anyone else ever had thoughts similar to this? I feel self-defeated.

 

[themarlins]

I dont think this is ENFJ related at all.

Fear of abandonment, falling for your opposite, wanting what you can't have.

This is common amongst all types I believe.

 

[Neutralpov]

I fell madly in love with someone who was my polar opposite. My intensity overwhelmed and pushed him away.
Anyone who has the ability to stabilize me is never going to want to handle me. And what's worse, I can't even be friends with the person I love so much. All I can do is pretend when I'm sad and try to savor when I'm feeling happy. I just want to be able to be myself without feeling selfish.

Has anyone else ever had thoughts similar to this? I feel self-defeated.

I relate to the above parts! I am intense and I don't want to be calmed down by force. the people I work well with tend to naturally accept me and somehow bring me a calming feeling without trying or let my intensity expire when it wants to. Specifically SJ's don't end up dealing well with it in my life experience. They get bossy and critical in the end of it.

Sometimes I feel like the above is our strength but also a weakness in the end with SOME people. It may be rare to find the right persons for our intensity but I have to remember what it made me feel like to be criticized or attempted to be de-intensified in more than a reasonable way. You can't change our nature without violating it in the end.

I get you! And I am glad someone else is saying what I have thought and felt!

 

[copperfish17]

So this ENFJ "intensity" you speak of... how does it manifest itself?

 

[Neutralpov]

Have you met an ENFJ in real life? Hard to miss it if you know them long enough or debate us.

 

[TopherRed]

The ENFJ is an ocean of will insufficiently hidden by the surface waves.

 

[gromit]

Are there other ways you can express the intensity... maybe like some kind of psychological pressure valve... so that when you are in his presence you're not freaking out internally? My ENFJ friend seems to need to talk about things a LOT. Then it helps her to face whatever it is that seems so overwhelming to her. Do you have a trusted friend to whom you can talk about this kind of thing?

 

[toast]

So this ENFJ "intensity" you speak of... how does it manifest itself?

Essentially, the intensity could be described this way: Happy, sad, determined, 'free, hopeful, anxious, frustrated... any of those normal feelings throughout life come in such overpowering waves and can't be processed by me without being expressed. So suppression is not an option (at least not for long) but the severity of the emotions or thoughts is usually too much to express without some kind of buffer to make the person receiving them not blown back. The buffer (how I say or present) works to a point, but the geyser inside is still apparent and can be misunderstood to make me seem too passive or too fierce. Essentially feelings and stress are so intense in me and then physically manifest themselves in my mannerisms, tone of voice, etc. Then I can only control this to a point, because I'm choosing between not coming off shocking or imposing myself onto others and finding some peace through expressing what's churning inside.

I've been called a lion or a Titan or "scary" a lot. I've also been scolded and lectured on how I need to be less naive, gentle or passive. There never seems to be a middle ground, its always too much of one thing or another.

Are there other ways you can express the intensity... maybe like some kind of psychological pressure valve... so that when you are in his presence you're not freaking out internally? My ENFJ friend seems to need to talk about things a LOT. Then it helps her to face whatever it is that seems so overwhelming to her. Do you have a trusted friend to whom you can talk about this kind of thing?

Well yes, talking is what helps me also and i developed a system of getting it out before I reacted to him, but by the time I began implementing this idea he gave up on us. I talk to others now more, and you'd probably be surprised just how much an ENFJ needs to talk to be cool in this situation. I have about 5-6 people I talk to, and discussion boards like this. But he's really acting like he is done, and he handled it in such a way that I don't think there could be any starting over without confrontation about how to keep it from happening like this again. And that will likely send him running again.

Essentially, things were going good from my perspective and everything seemed to be better than it ever was... but to him this closeness we had was stressful and he shut down and just stopped. He left for a weekend as my boyfriend and came back as a stranger. It was serious and then just not there. When confronted he just said I was still important to him but that he couldn't "handle being together". Literally a week before he was saying he "wouldn't let me go", that what we had was worth what we'd faced in the past and that there was "no reason we would ever not be able to work things out." He also said he believed in us, he's now said he doesn't. Apparently in one weekend (& it was actually just one night) he changed his own mind. I don't know how to process this. I understand why it happened, but I feel like my natural way of thinking will never allow me to process this without something from him. I absolutely can not believe that I'm important or loved as it is. Apparently this withdrawal and retreat is commonplace in Aspergers, and there is no closure when they reconnect, even as friends. It's as if the relationship was never anything more.

So I feel like, regardless of his issues, my own nature makes it impossible to be comfortably close to him. I don't know how I can be just a friend without pining, unless there is an effective expression of these feelings of abandonment and doubt about him. If it were anyone else I would know my only option for peace would be to withdraw completely from him and not look back, but we've lived together for a while and we've known each other since we were kids. I don't even feel like I can make that call right now. I just wish I needed less or something different.

 

[Fidelia]

This has nothing at all to do with you.

1. It is not your job to change your basic nature for someone to love you.

2. This has way more to do with his fear of intimacy than with your intensity. No matter what you do, he will find reasons to run away the more that he grows to care about you. Your attempts to change yourself are a moving target. As soon as you hit it, the goal of how you need to be different will change.

3. He's terribly insecure and it is impossible to have good communication and an equal balance of power in a relationship with someone who is. This is an individual problem, not a couple problem. He needs to see that contentment is found within his own perspective, not from outside circumstances or people.

4. His insecurity will cause you to edit yourself down so that he doesn't feel threatened by you. This is a terrible loss for the world and for him and it will twist your perspective, isolate you and potentially make you mentally unhealthy in the process. I've seen this happen very often.

5. His insecurity will cause you to isolate yourself from the perspectives and the support of others. He will feel uncomfortable until you do not surpass him in anything, and any pursuit or person you love or care about cannot pose a threat. This is not healthy!!!! We all need a variety of perspectives and a support system in our lives so that the responsibility for our happiness does not lie within one ill-equipped person!

6. Insecurity tends to retain the greatest amount of decision making clout while putting the greatest weight of responsibility/work on the partner. This is exactly converse to how it should be when one partner is weak and the other is stronger.

7. Proximity creates emotion and feelings of love and attachment (whether to people or things). Emotion will always trump intellectual reasoning and logic. Insecure people still have extremely attractive qualities and potential. None of us are truly strong enough to overpower feelings of love and attraction, even when we understand it's no good for us. This means we have to manipulate circumstances so we do not waste important years on people who are not ready to both give and receive love as equals.

8. Negative influences/feelings will come back if a vacuum is left. They have to be crowded out with positive people, pursuits, ideas and feelings. You will not feel better until you allow your focus to shift.

9. Only when you face futility and have your tears over it, can you adjust your behaviour to find a productive solution. Otherwise you will continue doing what doesn't work, which creates aggression that will be turned inward on yourself or outward towards other people. Accept that no matter what you do, you do not have the power to change his behaviour or how he feels about you.

10. I've found that as I've gotten older and know myself better, I can appreciate someone with qualities I wish I had, without assuming that I should date/marry those qualities. As we become more balanced and shore up our weaknesses, we are less likely to go for someone with whom we have very little in common. You need some shared traits to work from, even if you both have some different strengths.

Again, dearest toast - This is not about you. It's about him. You will feel rejected and responsible. He is not a bad person, but his insecurity will be toxic to both of you until he deals with it on his own.

 

[Spastic_Blondie]

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable. I am new to the forums but have recently become interested in typologies, and I must say that reading through some of the threads, this one definitely caught my eye.

I am a raging ENFJ myself, and a nearly identical experience happened recently with my boyfriend. He was very much a polar opposite to me in personality type as well, so much so that it got to the point where we were constantly arguing and having miscommunications, almost every day and oftentimes for hours straight. They were simply unresolvable. The problem was that I cared far too much about every tiny detail of our relationship, and any time he said something that in the slightest way hurt my feelings or dragged me down, I couldn't refrain from getting upset and letting out all of my frustration. Not because I had any intentions of making him miserable, but for the sheer sake of expressing myself and releasing all the emotional baggage. Being an introvert and very much a "peacekeeper" (though in reality he was only making it HARDER for me), he does not deal with conflict very well, and as a result could not handle my "intensity," as you very accurately described it.

When we first started dating, everything seemed so perfect. He was everything I was looking for in a guy -- we both had similar goals, values, etc. He had a great sense of humor, but he could also get serious so that we had very meaningful and interesting conversations. But as time went on, we discovered we just couldn't understand each other and that no amount of talking or reasoning EVER worked out our problems. He kept telling me how much he loved me and that I was the most amazing girl he'd ever met, but in the course of a few days that all changed. He decided he had simply had enough, broke up with me and basically refused to come see me anymore for fear it would just "make things worse." He told me that he still really cared for me and had feelings for me, but that he just didn't think things could ever work. It's been a few months since then, and we have been talking and trying to just be friends, but even THAT is almost an impossible hurdle to get over because he doesn't feel like I treat him like a friend. I can tell he doesn't even enjoy talking to me anymore because he is overwhelmed and fed up. I try so hard to change, to calm down, to improve our communication, but I still must be doing something wrong because nothing ever works (and aside from that, he claims that he doesn't want me to have to "change to make a relationship work"). I know there is nothing I can do, and it is so frustrating and discouraging because I miss him so much. He can't handle my drama, and I can't handle his lack of emotion because it feels like my personality is being suppressed.

He left for a weekend as my boyfriend and came back a stranger.

I know exactly how you feel. I've been trying to cope with it for months now because it hurts so much. It is as if there was never any relationship at all. He won't even have normal, friendly conversations with me like we used to because he is afraid I will get emotional about it and it will all end in another fight. It seems he has lost all trust and emotional attachment to me.

I don't know what advice to offer, because I've been trying to figure it all out myself, too. But just know that you are not alone in this experience. Try to find those friends who will bring out the best in you, who will let you rant for hours and be okay with it (at least that's what I've done and it's the only thing that even remotely helps). But whatever you do, don't go to him with these feelings. Don't even bother trying to do it calmly and rationally like he would, especially right now when you're still drowning in emotions. I've made this mistake far too many times. I know he's the one you desperately want to talk to and that you think he MUST still care, but talking to him about it will only make matters worse. Find other outlets. If you try to pull him back to you this soon, it will only cause him to run even faster in the other direction.

Guys like this do not handle confrontation very well, so don't try to confront it. Don't apologize for anything, don't say you can fix it. Just don't. Leave him alone for a long while and then eventually come back as friends and just try not to make the same mistakes anymore. It's your best bet. I don't know what will work, but I've seen what won't...haha. And it's definitely a stab in the heart.

Most importantly, I just want to say that I'm feeling the same way and the guilt tends to pile up on my shoulders, too...so know you are not alone and try not to blame yourself for it. It's NOT your fault.



EDIT
Also, I think fidelia is right. He may be a wonderful guy, but he probably has some insecurity issues that he needs to deal with. I know that that was sort of an issue in my relationship. I'll admit that we were both a bit insecure - I was too sensitive and he was too distant. Basically, he had too much insecurity already himself that he couldn't take on the extra stress of our relationship.

 

[21%]

Hugs for all the ENFJs

Perhaps it has to do with age as well. I think a lot of the intensity calms down a bit when you grow older. It's still as deep, but calmer, and more controllable. The best way to speed it up is to do a lot of soul-searching and try to understand yourself and learn to accept yourself for who you are. It's not your fault. Sometimes people need years before they can truly settle into their personality and be comfortable with themselves. Maybe he needs to do that too. I think if you both take a step back and focus on yourselves right now, there will be a chance to start again in the future.

 

[toast]

Thank you fidelia. Can you imagine anything more destructive to an ENFJ nature than a child-abused ISTP on the autism spectrum? Completely alluring, drowning and unreachable, except in these rare moments when he makes the tiniest connection or empathy and just when I'm at the cusp of giving up.

His insecurity (which 'became' mine somehow) has only conpounded issues of communication we already would have found difficult. He has decided to get into some sort of therapy to manage his depression and self esteem issues. I really hope he follows through on that & that it helps him.

Spastic blondie, I'm so sorry you had to experience this. It almost makes me wish I WAS alone, but it helpd to know this happens. I dont know about you, but my biggest problem since the beginning has been acceptance. Acceptance of what i can't control even when it's something I feel I need. He has made a lot of effort since the beginning but I've always had trouble accepting it when it comes because I've usually felt starved for it so long before he's processed enough to give it. "Too little, too late." How ridiculous is that? And I can see myself doing it but can't seem to control it. This phenomena got progressively worse over time. I was much more accepting, independent, patient and secure when I met him.

He is really trying to be friends too. He has made a lot of attempts to be supportive and to communicate seriously these past few days and I think it's actually making me worse! His passive little gestures of kindness and sympathy just seem to incite these festering emotions in me. This sad cycle has to stop. Even today, I was on the verge of breaking down and he sensed it and caressed my arm and smiled at me (in a crowded place - a big move from him). Simultaneously my heart leaps and my mind turns a summersault looking for 'what it means' and 'whether any more will come' without actually thinking tangible thoughts at all. I'm infused with a burst of energy, all aimed at him. I start speaking, charming, just being attentive to him without willing it to happen. Then this invisible awareness comes and I sink knowing that what it 'means' won't help me feel better at all, and that there definitely will not be 'more' than this gesture for a while. And even though I desperately want to keep being warm and grateful towards him I start sinking again, on the verge of breaking down again... and it's all compounded by the guilt I feel for not being able to accept and be helped his genuine gesture of affection.

Now, these past few days have been particularly emotional to me, so today was a pretty severe representation. But it still happens regularly. Some attention or effort from him, or simply the energy I get when I pull away for a while, just motivates me to overestimate myself, get all 'ideal-y' and start believing I need (or am ready) to make efforts to be close to him. Then his natural behavior either reminds me of what I've lost with him or what I've never had and I sink and need to withdraw again.

This must be terrible for him. It doesn't help that I am the only one he gets any support from. Its not like I'm supporting him now because I'm not even capable, but it does make me feel worse to know he is looking for support and I can't give it. If he had someone else at least I could feel less guilt. I know the rationalization that should bring me to. I understand he isn't my responsibility. But my feelings just don't seem to listen half the time.

These things make me generalize myself and think that ENFJs are selfish in all the weakest ways, and selfless in the most impractical ways. I know I wouldn't normally doubt myself like this or feel guilt at needing some feedback and emotional intimacy. But my hunger for feedback from him has become unhealthy, and my compulsion to help or support him has become toxic and ineffective because I don't have the energy to actually act on it (at least not consistently) and it's just become a constant source of failure. So right now he can't give me enough to feel loved after it's gotten this bad, I don't think. And I'm not even being a very good friend.

I don't think this has to mean we should never be close. After all it took 2 years and a million mistakes to get where we are. But I know the only hope we have of any healthy or successful relationship is if I get my sh#t together and mend my insecurities so that he doesn't keep inflaming them. I have no idea how to do this. NO IDEA at all. I can self sooth, sure, but repairing personal damage done by someone I trusted and depended on just doesn't seem like something I'd naturally do. All those who have really hurt me before have either disappeared from my life completely or I've reinvented the relationship to make myself very immune to any lasting personal connection. I don't know how to have mutual relationships with them, and I don't want this kind of empty one sided relationship with him.

I also think that the only way I should even consider getting back 'together' with him is when I feel like I'd be perfectly fine either way so that I know I'm making decisions when getting back into it for the right reasons. Of course, this is a terrifying idea because the logical part of me says I would never get close to him and risk this again if I was completely 'over' him, and the emotional side says I could never dream of getting 'over' him if I ever wanted a relationship with true meaning.

THIS is that ENFJ intensity under stress for me. That super logic versus blind idealist (passion) & absolutely no understanding (and therefore acceptance) of a middle ground.

I know if he loved me than he still does. And I'm certain he has enough feelings of attachment that he'd be jealous if I was with someone else right now. But he sees no point in getting 'over' me or in hanging onto his feelings either. He can just shove it all back somewhere and let living sort it out somehow. How I envy that. And I'm glad he's got that ability for his sake.

I've had some good moments this month but the past few days have been a living hell. I find myself idealizing the past (which I never do), longing for support from my parents (I barely even talk to) in a very childlike way, and isolating my thoughts from the other people I'm close to for various reasons that almost make me feel like I'm a cat trying to find a dark corner to be die in. It has been a pathetic, primal sort of depression. I've been pining and mourning simultaneously. He gives me friendliness and I'm devastated that I can't have that higher level of intimacy. He gives me coldness and I'm reminiscing how kind and loving he has been in the past. This whole situation has been the biggest experience of compounding grief I have ever had. I certainly hope it comes to something good one day.

I wish I had more support but sadly I am running short at this point. This is a very awkward situation so most of my friends and family don't 'get' why I don't just do or feel one thing or another. At this point im so conflicted that my whole perspective on the situation changes completely an average of three times a day. The truth is all I CAN do that I know helps me is talk my @$$ off with very little direction. This has become tiring to everyone, at least it seems so from my perspective. I'm considering therapy but I'm pretty nervous I will feel judged or misunderstood and I'll run with my tail tucked & feel more hopeless.

I've also found that brief periods of intense mindless work towards tasks I can check off a list helps too. And moments of indulgence of Se when im receptive to it. But it is very difficult to get that process started up while my emotions are sucking up all my energy.

21%, I truly hope this has something to do with maturity... because then there is a chance I will never have to go through it again. I would give so much for some peace, order and clarity right now. But I just hope whatever happens I don't walk away from this with lasting fear or anxiety that I will face it again.

 

[toast]

Thank you fidelia. Can you imagine anything more destructive to an ENFJ nature than a child-abused ISTP on the autism spectrum? Completely alluring, drowning and unreachable, except in these rare moments when he makes the tiniest connection or empathy and just when I'm at the cusp of giving up.

His insecurity (which 'became' mine somehow) has only conpounded issues of communication we already would have found difficult. He has decided to get into some sort of therapy to manage his depression and self esteem issues. I really hope he follows through on that & that it helps him.

Spastic blondie, I'm so sorry you had to experience this. It almost makes me wish I WAS alone, but it helpd to know this happens. I dont know about you, but my biggest problem since the beginning has been acceptance. Acceptance of what i can't control even when it's something I feel I need. He has made a lot of effort since the beginning but I've always had trouble accepting it when it comes because I've usually felt starved for it so long before he's processed enough to give it. "Too little, too late." How ridiculous is that? And I can see myself doing it but can't seem to control it. This phenomena got progressively worse over time. I was much more accepting, independent, patient and secure when I met him.

He is really trying to be friends too. He has made a lot of attempts to be supportive and to communicate seriously these past few days and I think it's actually making me worse! His passive little gestures of kindness and sympathy just seem to incite these festering emotions in me. This sad cycle has to stop. Even today, I was on the verge of breaking down and he sensed it and caressed my arm and smiled at me (in a crowded place - a big move from him). Simultaneously my heart leaps and my mind turns a summersault looking for 'what it means' and 'whether any more will come' without actually thinking tangible thoughts at all. I'm infused with a burst of energy, all aimed at him. I start speaking, charming, just being attentive to him without willing it to happen. Then this invisible awareness comes and I sink knowing that what it 'means' won't help me feel better at all, and that there definitely will not be 'more' than this gesture for a while. And even though I desperately want to keep being warm and grateful towards him I start sinking again, on the verge of breaking down again... and it's all compounded by the guilt I feel for not being able to accept and be helped his genuine gesture of affection.

Now, these past few days have been particularly emotional to me, so today was a pretty severe representation. But it still happens regularly. Some attention or effort from him, or simply the energy I get when I pull away for a while, just motivates me to overestimate myself, get all 'ideal-y' and start believing I need (or am ready) to make efforts to be close to him. Then his natural behavior either reminds me of what I've lost with him or what I've never had and I sink and need to withdraw again.

This must be terrible for him. It doesn't help that I am the only one he gets any support from. Its not like I'm supporting him now because I'm not even capable, but it does make me feel worse to know he is looking for support and I can't give it. If he had someone else at least I could feel less guilt. I know the rationalization that should bring me to. I understand he isn't my responsibility. But my feelings just don't seem to listen half the time.

These things make me generalize myself and think that ENFJs are selfish in all the weakest ways, and selfless in the most impractical ways. I know I wouldn't normally doubt myself like this or feel guilt at needing some feedback and emotional intimacy. But my hunger for feedback from him has become unhealthy, and my compulsion to help or support him has become toxic and ineffective because I don't have the energy to actually act on it (at least not consistently) and it's just become a constant source of failure. So right now he can't give me enough to feel loved after it's gotten this bad, I don't think. And I'm not even being a very good friend.

I don't think this has to mean we should never be close. After all it took 2 years and a million mistakes to get where we are. But I know the only hope we have of any healthy or successful relationship is if I get my sh#t together and mend my insecurities so that he doesn't keep inflaming them. I have no idea how to do this. NO IDEA at all. I can self sooth, sure, but repairing personal damage done by someone I trusted and depended on just doesn't seem like something I'd naturally do. All those who have really hurt me before have either disappeared from my life completely or I've reinvented the relationship to make myself very immune to any lasting personal connection. I don't know how to have mutual relationships with them, and I don't want this kind of empty one sided relationship with him.

I also think that the only way I should even consider getting back 'together' with him is when I feel like I'd be perfectly fine either way so that I know I'm making decisions when getting back into it for the right reasons. Of course, this is a terrifying idea because the logical part of me says I would never get close to him and risk this again if I was completely 'over' him, and the emotional side says I could never dream of getting 'over' him if I ever wanted a relationship with true meaning.

THIS is that ENFJ intensity under stress for me. That super logic versus blind idealist (passion) & absolutely no understanding (and therefore acceptance) of a middle ground.

I know if he loved me than he still does. And I'm certain he has enough feelings of attachment that he'd be jealous if I was with someone else right now. But he sees no point in getting 'over' me or in hanging onto his feelings either. He can just shove it all back somewhere and let living sort it out somehow. How I envy that. And I'm glad he's got that ability for his sake.

I've had some good moments this month but the past few days have been a living hell. I find myself idealizing the past (which I never do), longing for support from my parents (I barely even talk to) in a very childlike way, and isolating my thoughts from the other people I'm close to for various reasons that almost make me feel like I'm a cat trying to find a dark corner to be die in. It has been a pathetic, primal sort of depression. I've been pining and mourning simultaneously. He gives me friendliness and I'm devastated that I can't have that higher level of intimacy. He gives me coldness and I'm reminiscing how kind and loving he has been in the past. This whole situation has been the biggest experience of compounding grief I have ever had. I certainly hope it comes to something good one day.

I wish I had more support but sadly I am running short at this point. This is a very awkward situation so most of my friends and family don't 'get' why I don't just do or feel one thing or another. At this point im so conflicted that my whole perspective on the situation changes completely an average of three times a day. The truth is all I CAN do that I know helps me is talk my @$$ off with very little direction. This has become tiring to everyone, at least it seems so from my perspective. I'm considering therapy but I'm pretty nervous I will feel judged or misunderstood and I'll run with my tail tucked & feel more hopeless.

I've also found that brief periods of intense mindless work towards tasks I can check off a list helps too. And moments of indulgence of Se when im receptive to it. But it is very difficult to get that process started up while my emotions are sucking up all my energy.

21%, I truly hope this has something to do with maturity... because then there is a chance I will never have to go through it again. I would give so much for some peace, order and clarity right now. But I just hope whatever happens I don't walk away from this with lasting fear or anxiety that I will face it again.

 

[Fidelia]

Oh Toast, girlie, I'm so sorry. Well, if you need to talk, you know that we aren't nearby but we won't get tired of you talking, so talk away. Right now you need time to sort through all of the varying perspectives that you are feeling throughout the course of each day. If I extrapolate from the bit of those feelings you express that I most certainly have experienced, I can only imagine how must pain you are in. Do you have any other people in your life that can serve as a support system and who would allow you to just talk and talk and talk? I think that there could be some value in good therapy, but I'm not sure how you sort through all the kinds of therapists there are out there to find what is practical and useful. I think what both of you are doing is smart right now.

One of the markers of a healthy relationship is when both people have learned self-care. By that I mean having a margin of time, money, emotional energy, support so that you are not always operating from a deficit. It is taking care of your own needs appropriately so that you have something left to give to someone else. When you have the margin you need, you are not choosing out of a place of desperation or longing or need. You may even have margin yourself, but if the person you are with does not, your resources will soon be completely depleted and neither of you have what they need to survive. Self-care means that you don't stay in a situation that is dangerous to you. While this may be happening not through your own choice, there is good that comes out of every situation. Often the very most painful times are also the times when we grow the most. You are obviously a strong person with lots to offer, so hang in there! You're going to be alright!!!

 

[Spastic_Blondie]

Now, these past few days have been particularly emotional to me, so today was a pretty severe representation. But it still happens regularly. Some attention or effort from him, or simply the energy I get when I pull away for a while, just motivates me to overestimate myself, get all 'ideal-y' and start believing I need (or am ready) to make efforts to be close to him. Then his natural behavior either reminds me of what I've lost with him or what I've never had and I sink and need to withdraw again.

I do the same. Sometimes I wonder if I'm insane or something because I can't EVER make up my mind. First I feel like I should try to be on good terms, then it feels like that is impossible and I end up needing to lash out (something along the lines of "Forget it, I don't need you"), putting us on even worse terms. I don't know if you are as direct as I am with your ex or if you mainly keep your feelings inside, but I definitely can relate to the bit on withdrawing. First I want to get closer, then I want to withdraw. It's completely dreadful and makes me feel terrible about myself.

To most of what you have said, it sounds like you are having better luck than me. Mine no longer has any emotional attachment to me...I have finally completely driven him away. If that serves as ANY type of consolation... =(

I also think that the only way I should even consider getting back 'together' with him is when I feel like I'd be perfectly fine either way so that I know I'm making decisions when getting back into it for the right reasons. Of course, this is a terrifying idea because the logical part of me says I would never get close to him and risk this again if I was completely 'over' him, and the emotional side says I could never dream of getting 'over' him if I ever wanted a relationship with true meaning.

THIS is that ENFJ intensity under stress for me. That super logic versus blind idealist (passion) & absolutely no understanding (and therefore acceptance) of a middle ground.

I feel like I'm looking at my mirror reflection. These exact same thoughts have gone through my head countless times. Every night I go to bed with the mindset that I am in charge of my life and my happiness and that he was not right for me, and the next morning I wake up feeling sick to my stomach (literally MORNING SICKNESS) about how much I miss him and how I could have done so much better.

I know if he loved me than he still does. And I'm certain he has enough feelings of attachment that he'd be jealous if I was with someone else right now. But he sees no point in getting 'over' me or in hanging onto his feelings either. He can just shove it all back somewhere and let living sort it out somehow. How I envy that. And I'm glad he's got that ability for his sake.

My boyfriend did the same. He told me he "didn't know if we'd ever get back together." He "still loved me" but we just "weren't working." And guess what? He is now with someone else... Not kidding. He bounced back THAT fast. Now he's become rude and cold and tells me, "We are NOT getting back together." I was certain she would never be his type, and I'm kind of worried he might be on the rebound. But there I go again, assuming the worst out of people and reacting to it with such intensity.

I wish I had more support but sadly I am running short at this point. This is a very awkward situation so most of my friends and family don't 'get' why I don't just do or feel one thing or another. At this point im so conflicted that my whole perspective on the situation changes completely an average of three times a day. The truth is all I CAN do that I know helps me is talk my @$$ off with very little direction. This has become tiring to everyone, at least it seems so from my perspective. I'm considering therapy but I'm pretty nervous I will feel judged or misunderstood and I'll run with my tail tucked & feel more hopeless.

Same here. Not everyone understands. They try to provide advice, and I accept it whole-heartedly, but it also never seems to be enough to satisfy me...and at some point people just give up. Also, it helps so much to vent, but the venting causes me to become more and more conflicted. I would like to do counseling too but am worried it would hurt my self esteem or not be worth it. This forum, honestly, has actually provided more counseling than I thought I could ever find...and I think what really inspired me to look into this was the difficult break-up I am dealing with and the fact that I would really like to understand myself better. In the future, I hope that I will be able to learn something from all this and that I can tone down my "intensity" so that others will be able to put up with me.

I've also found that brief periods of intense mindless work towards tasks I can check off a list helps too. And moments of indulgence of Se when im receptive to it. But it is very difficult to get that process started up while my emotions are sucking up all my energy.

I LOVE my job. It's one of my best outlets...a warm environment doing things I enjoy. Even still though, I have found less motivation to go to work or to get things done. So I relate to this as well. Emotions can be truly burdening.

21%, I truly hope this has something to do with maturity... because then there is a chance I will never have to go through it again. I would give so much for some peace, order and clarity right now. But I just hope whatever happens I don't walk away from this with lasting fear or anxiety that I will face it again.

Amen, sister.





I hear an echo in this post. Haha. But only because I sincerely mean it. I understand what you're going through in a very, very up close and personal way.

 

[Spastic_Blondie]

One of the markers of a healthy relationship is when both people have learned self-care. By that I mean having a margin of time, money, emotional energy, support so that you are not always operating from a deficit. It is taking care of your own needs appropriately so that you have something left to give to someone else. When you have the margin you need, you are not choosing out of a place of desperation or longing or need. You may even have margin yourself, but if the person you are with does not, your resources will soon be completely depleted and neither of you have what they need to survive. Self-care means that you don't stay in a situation that is dangerous to you. While this may be happening not through your own choice, there is good that comes out of every situation. Often the very most painful times are also the times when we grow the most. You are obviously a strong person with lots to offer, so hang in there! You're going to be alright!!!

I know this was technically directed at Toast, but I really needed that at the moment. Thank you, Fidelia. =)

 

[Fidelia]

The quickness of you being replaced has more to do with him not taking time to face his own emotions, feelings of loss etc than it does with you driving him away. Spastic, my dear, go back and read the reply I gave to Toast earlier. I am very sure that this is not at all about you. And yet, the longer and closer you are to it, the more of a failure you will feel like. The more insecure he is, the more you will feel guilt, rejection, a sense of being clingy or pathetic when you are not normally like that and your sense of self-assurance will be greatly undermined. I would like to refer you to a list of classic symptoms of insecurity (have to look it up on here). If those are present, you cannot take his responses as being valid measures of what kind of person or girlfriend you are. That is not to say he's a bad person. However, he's had something that's shaken his ability to trust and be vulnerable to other people, which of course had a huge impact on how secure you felt in the relationship and how stable it was. There would be something wrong if you didn't feel uncertain, given the circumstances. That is why it is important to remove yourself and give yourself time and a little kindness to build your confidence and identity back up. I don't know if this applies, but in my experience, someone who is insecure is going to be jealous of everyone and everything that could claim your affections and everything is a competition of where he measures compared to you or anyone else. That means that you end up becoming isolated and so how he thinks/feels/acts has a much greater impact than if he was just one aspect of your life rather than becoming the centre of it. You will also have to edit yourself down so that he does not feel threatened and take on all the responsibility for the relationship's success while retaining almost none of the decision-making clout.

 

[Spastic_Blondie]

The quickness of you being replaced has more to do with him not taking time to face his own emotions, feelings of loss etc than it does with you driving him away. Spastic, my dear, go back and read the reply I gave to Toast earlier. I am very sure that this is not at all about you. And yet, the longer and closer you are to it, the more of a failure you will feel like. The more insecure he is, the more you will feel guilt, rejection, a sense of being clingy or pathetic when you are not normally like that and your sense of self-assurance will be greatly undermined. I would like to refer you to a list of classic symptoms of insecurity (have to look it up on here). If those are present, you cannot take his responses as being valid measures of what kind of person or girlfriend you are. That is not to say he's a bad person. However, he's had something that's shaken his ability to trust and be vulnerable to other people, which of course had a huge impact on how secure you felt in the relationship and how stable it was. There would be something wrong if you didn't feel uncertain, given the circumstances. That is why it is important to remove yourself and give yourself time and a little kindness to build your confidence and identity back up. I don't know if this applies, but in my experience, someone who is insecure is going to be jealous of everyone and everything that could claim your affections and everything is a competition of where he measures compared to you or anyone else. That means that you end up becoming isolated and so how he thinks/feels/acts has a much greater impact than if he was just one aspect of your life rather than becoming the centre of it. You will also have to edit yourself down so that he does not feel threatened and take on all the responsibility for the relationship's success while retaining almost none of the decision-making clout.

Fidelia, you really do help a lot, thank you. (I can see why they would say INFJ's make good counselors). But I'm a bit confused about the last sentence. Do you think you could explain that in a different way? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying he took no blame for the things that went wrong. He very much did and tried to be respectful about the break-up, and he never wanted me to edit myself down. I'll give him credit where it's due, because if I don't, no one can really help me to figure out what went wrong. The thing is, he just didn't think it was working, mainly because of my strong emotional reactions to things. One or the other of us always took something the wrong way and then over-reacted about it (maybe playing off each other's insecurity?). I was a lot more expressive with my emotions, but I think we both still felt them very intensely. The difference between our personalities was that I was very honest and straightforward about the way I felt, and when the conflict was over, I felt better. He didn't feel better after the fight was over...he went home at night and felt miserable, but neglected to tell me about it. He basically lied to me the entire time we were dating so that he wouldn't get my emotions all riled up and cause me to end up crying. I think he was thinking about breaking up for a very long time but not expressing it and not telling me that something DESPERATELY needed to change or he could no longer deal with me. Then one day he just did it, and that was that. No amount of promising, pleading, or apologizing on my part was good enough for him to turn around and change his mind. He was very firm and confident in his decision, which is what makes me think he'd been considering it for a long time.

The girl he is with now...I definitely cannot understand it. No amount of tossing and turning at night trying to figure it out is going to bring me any closer to an answer on this one.

 

[Fidelia]

Naw, just the pronouns got all mixed up. I'm just saying these are common traits of what ends up happening when there is strong insecurity.

Do you know what type he was? Chances are if he was a T that your emotional reaction was just something he wasn't sure how to deal with. It may have made him feel unsure of himself or powerless to improve the situation when he wasn't sure what to expect from you. A lot of the Thinkers I've seen are very definite in their decisions and try not to look back after they've made them. However, this doesn't always mean that they've been spending a long time thinking it over or that they are always 100% happy about them. Someone on here awhile back was talking about how they'd have to force themselves to sleep with someone else after breaking up even though they wouldn't want to, just so that they could move on. I'm not saying that's true all the time, but I think it's a possibility sometimes. Sometimes a situation just comes up rather suddenly and they panic with what to do so opt out. Then they decide it doesn't make sense to return to the same situation if they haven't got a solution figured out that they are happy with. Of course, I don't know him or much of the background that led you guys to that place.

 

[Spastic_Blondie]

I honestly have no clue except that I'm almost positive he's an IxxP. I don't know if he was more of a feeler or a thinker. From what I can tell it seems he had very strong feelings for me, but his reasoning led him to eventually break up with me. Sensing versus intuition I'm not really sure about either. He was pretty intuitive and good with theory/abstractions, but was also good with detail and living in the present from what I could tell. I'm not entirely certain since I'm still pretty new to the MBTI stuff, but from what I could tell he seemed to be an N.

Do you know what type he was? Chances are if he was a T that your emotional reaction was just something he wasn't sure how to deal with. It may have made him feel unsure of himself or powerless to improve the situation when he wasn't sure what to expect from you. A lot of the Thinkers I've seen are very definite in their decisions and try not to look back after they've made them. However, this doesn't always mean that they've been spending a long time thinking it over or that they are always 100% happy about them. Someone on here awhile back was talking about how they'd have to force themselves to sleep with someone else after breaking up even though they wouldn't want to, just so that they could move on. I'm not saying that's true all the time, but I think it's a possibility sometimes. Sometimes a situation just comes up rather suddenly and they panic with what to do so opt out. Then they decide it doesn't make sense to return to the same situation if they haven't got a solution figured out that they are happy with. Of course, I don't know him or much of the background that led you guys to that place.

Whoa. Definitely sounds like him. He must have been a thinker. Now I'm damn worried, because this girl would undoubtedly "put out" for him. It gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach... We always talked about sex, but we never had it. I feel I'm too young and not ready. But I just hate picturing him doing it with...someone else.

EDIT
I'm reading about INTP's. He was DEFINITELY an INTP. Does that tell you anything more about this situation?

Thank you so much, Fidelia. You're SO helpful.