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  1. #21
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    The problem is...I find myself very much attracted to NT's. I really liked him when I met him and continue to miss his brilliance, creativity, strong work ethic. He was so admirable and deep. Yet it would explain why we lost touch. We couldn't communicate with each other. He WANTED to treat me right, but didn't understand my excessive emotions and chalked it up to me not being happy with him. I'm just SO confused because I was very upset a lot about the way we interacted, yet I did and still DO want to be with him. So happy is a very complicated thing to define. I guess I wasn't often in a happy state, but I was happy with the overall fact of being with him. CONFUSING.

    One thing he mentioned was that the only thing that makes me more miserable than being with him is being without him. In a way, I guess that makes sense. It's a shame, though.

    EDIT
    One thing I intend to do in the future if I end up with another INTP...or any NT, for that matter, is understand him better. I didn't really understand the first thing about his personality or why he acted the way he did, which is why I was constantly taking it as a personal attack or a complete change in his character. For example, oftentimes I thought he was doing things to be passive aggressive...when really he just didn't understand the way I felt about it. Also, he would claim to have an opinion about something, but then change his mind later because of the situation because I guess he didn't think it applied the same way. I got upset with him because I felt he didn't take things as seriously as I did, and he got upset because in doing so I was questioning his judgment. This type of thing happened a LOT.

    Interestingly enough my brother was an ISTP...literally my COMPLETE opposite. However, we've lived together all our lives and have made a strong effort to understand our vast differences, and it has actually brought us very close together. Had the same been done with my ex, I feel that we could have worked it out over time. But he didn't.

  2. #22
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Read up on INTPs here. Should give you lots of insight. They're pretty direct, but laid back. Sometimes get lost in their own thoughts and ignore what's going on around them. I do know though that they abhor drama. They're pretty low key and find it is a huge expenditure of energy just to focus on some of the interpersonal stuff that doesn't figure high on their priority list. If they are already trying to do that, they're going to find it hard to deal with too much of what they see as illogical emotion. That's a stereotype, I'm sure, but if you talk to some of the INTPs on here, I think you will see a trend. Jock is an early 20s INTP in a relationship with an ESTJ, I think Fluffy is an INTP in his late 20s, Tallulah is in her 30s, Jennifer is in her early 40s and is an extremely well-balanced INTP. Jenocyde is an ENTP that is together with an INTP and loves it that she can be so direct with him without having to do a lot of filtering. There are lots of other INTPs here, but those are some of the ones that have been around for quite awhile.

    I should say that as I've gotten older, I've realized that just because someone has qualities that I don't possess but do admire, doesn't always mean that they are a good match for me. I think it's worth taking the time to try to become more balanced out so that when you are choosing you can pick someone who has some common ground and who has some differences from you.

  3. #23
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    I think it also helps that I'm aware of it now. If it can be fixed at all, understanding it is the first step to fixing it, right? I would like to learn to calm down and take control of my emotions so that I could get along better with the T's. It is really hard, no doubt...but I certainly couldn't make a conscious effort to change something I didn't know was wrong in the first place. And to be honest, I legitimately had no idea how much my emotional outbursts were driving him away. I thought it's what was necessary for him to understand my feelings...

    ...until I started reading into personality types. It all makes a lot more sense now. I can be a bit naive at times.

    I suppose my ISTP brother just puts up with me because he's known me all his life and has come to understand how I am as an individual better than anyone else does.

  4. #24
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I'm a (straight) guy, but I cant help but see little traits (that I share) in your own stress reactions (even though you're a girl). It must be the ENFJ overlap between us?

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    THIS is that ENFJ intensity under stress for me. That super logic versus blind idealist (passion) & absolutely no understanding (and therefore acceptance) of a middle ground.
    Its that moment where you almost think you might be becoming a T . You scare yourself with how "cold and rational/unemotional" you appear to yourself. In retrospect, I always end up realizing that I was just being child-ish and seeing things only in black/white.

    I've also found that brief periods of intense mindless work towards tasks I can check off a list helps too. And moments of indulgence of Se when im receptive to it. But it is very difficult to get that process started up while my emotions are sucking up all my energy.
    Food and Music are my Se stress releases. Playing instrumental music (like tactile playing) seems to just take my mind to another planet. An added bonus is that when I return to this planet, my emotions seem to stay on that other planet (a good release).

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    Essentially, the intensity could be described this way: Happy, sad, determined, 'free, hopeful, anxious, frustrated... any of those normal feelings throughout life come in such overpowering waves and can't be processed by me without being expressed. So suppression is not an option (at least not for long) but the severity of the emotions or thoughts is usually too much to express without some kind of buffer to make the person receiving them not blown back. The buffer (how I say or present) works to a point, but the geyser inside is still apparent and can be misunderstood to make me seem too passive or too fierce. Essentially feelings and stress are so intense in me and then physically manifest themselves in my mannerisms, tone of voice, etc. Then I can only control this to a point, because I'm choosing between not coming off shocking or imposing myself onto others and finding some peace through expressing what's churning inside.
    Exactly. Some people just cannot handle the ENFJ intensity. Others can...those people should probably be more in your life than the others.

    I've been called a lion or a Titan or "scary" a lot. I've also been scolded and lectured on how I need to be less naive, gentle or passive. There never seems to be a middle ground, its always too much of one thing or another.
    I've had this too. I would be way too nice to the point of being passive, or be too forward and steamroller-ish. Sometimes its going from "really caring" to really not caring! Over time I've learned how to calibrate it better.

    Well yes, talking is what helps me also and i developed a system of getting it out before I reacted to him, but by the time I began implementing this idea he gave up on us. I talk to others now more, and you'd probably be surprised just how much an ENFJ needs to talk to be cool in this situation. I have about 5-6 people I talk to, and discussion boards like this.
    One of my little heuristics of "how good of a friend are they?" is how much "getting everything out" they can tolerate. haha. I have some friends who will listen to everything and anything and relate/chime in happily. I have other 'friends' who just zone out, or get weirded out. Still, I probably save my 'heaviest stuff' or 'weirdest stuff' for message boards. I'm pretty sure that making sure not to dump those thoughts on real life people has been a good thing for the most part.

  5. #25
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Right now you need time to sort through all of the varying perspectives that you are feeling throughout the course of each day.
    I agree with this exactly. It seems to be a problem with me that I have a natural urge to find one solution or perspective that fits perfectly. Like a pattern that fits so well that I can base my actions and decisions off of it with security. However, being so empathetic and intuitive I can come up with multiple patterns that fit. None of them are perfect because I am aware of how they exclude the others. It creates a lot of conflict in me. Usually it isn't this severe, and talking sort of naturally guides me to one perspective (sort of like revealing my Fi). But this has been going on for about 2 yrs. and I haven't been able to talk enough to process it. Because he is insecure and it has isolated me a lot (for example he never liked me talking 'about' him to anyone else) but I could never resolve anything talking to him.

    One of the markers of a healthy relationship is when both people have learned self-care. By that I mean having a margin of time, money, emotional energy, support so that you are not always operating from a deficit. It is taking care of your own needs appropriately so that you have something left to give to someone else. When you have the margin you need, you are not choosing out of a place of desperation or longing or need. You may even have margin yourself, but if the person you are with does not, your resources will soon be completely depleted and neither of you have what they need to survive. Self-care means that you don't stay in a situation that is dangerous to you.
    I'm still pretty convinced I had little to no 'baggage' before this began. I had an uncomfortable relationship with my parents but went through a lot which really seemed to settle that out. I was very capable of caring for myself and being appropriately guarded when we met. I'm pretty sure I became more vulnerable, in part, because I thought that would make him do the same but it very much back fired. Once I opened myself too much for him to reciprocate, my xNxJ started making me crazy with it. I'm definitely dealing with compoundong grief because I've lost a lot of the friendship (my part of it), romance and support (what I did get of it) AND I feel replaced by these new friends of his AND these past two yrs have isolated me in a way that makes me feel like I don't or shouldn't have the space and resources to get the support I need. I've had severe anxiety and physical manifestations of stress like twitching and startling at just about anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spastic_Blondie View Post
    I do the same. Sometimes I wonder if I'm insane or something because I can't EVER make up my mind. First I feel like I should try to be on good terms, then it feels like that is impossible and I end up needing to lash out (something along the lines of "Forget it, I don't need you"), putting us on even worse terms.
    Yes. This is exactly the conflict I'm talking about. Though I stopped lashing out at him a long while ago. Now I just keep most of the reactions internal and just behave in one way or another. I don't have much anger but I do get very coldly logical and decide that it's hopeless. This causes me to either shut off and withdraw from him. Then when I'm feeling better I find myself thinking optimistically and trying to show him friendliness and support. Then back again... these shifts must be noticeable so it probably seems like I'm lashing out in some way.

    I don't know if you are as direct as I am with your ex or if you mainly keep your feelings inside, but I definitely can relate to the bit on withdrawing. First I want to get closer, then I want to withdraw. It's completely dreadful and makes me feel terrible about myself.
    Being too direct (or at least being open about how I felt as often as I wanted to) is not even an option. He can't even handle the intensity of my happiness, optimism or affection when it comes out. Everything was suppressed to a point, making it more difficult to reveal anything when it DID need to come out without being too overwhelming for him. So I understand completely what you mean when you say it made you feel terrible about yourself.

    To most of what you have said, it sounds like you are having better luck than me. Mine no longer has any emotional attachment to me...I have finally completely driven him away.
    I do think of this and it helps I suppose. I do love him very much but I'm very emotionally wrecked and it's difficult to feel anything positive right now. Also, I don't feel that he has much emotional attachment to me. I barely did when we were together. I feel like it is just reality that he can keep his feelings at bay and almost nonexistent for self preservation. I feel like he has a very direct ability to love me and think of me as important without actually having any attachment at all. I know it sounds cynical, but he gets something out of being nice to me or loving me, but his connection to me is very self centered in a conscious way. So most of the time his gestures or considerations happen when it's obvious that doing them will get him some desired outcome. I don't know how much he thinks about it so I can't say he isn't sincere, but it is difficult to accept that I have a real connection with someone who never really focuses on my wellbeing, or my happiness, or even my features (he NEVER talks about me, he never has unless I've directed the conversation that way). At least when I'm dealing with so much insecurity from how this relationship evolved. I do understand that if he wasn't talking to me at all I would want what I have now.

    I feel like I'm looking at my mirror reflection. These exact same thoughts have gone through my head countless times. Every night I go to bed with the mindset that I am in charge of my life and my happiness and that he was not right for me, and the next morning I wake up feeling sick to my stomach (literally MORNING SICKNESS) about how much I miss him and how I could have done so much better.
    This happens in intervals but pretty consistently. If I go to bed feeling bad I usually wake up worse, but if I go to bed feeling positive I still rarely wake up feeling okay. I can't wait for this to change. I have been doing okay these past two nights, but before that I've had insomnia for about a month and a half (since he came back).

    My boyfriend did the same. He told me he "didn't know if we'd ever get back together." He "still loved me" but we just "weren't working." And guess what? He is now with someone else... Not kidding. He bounced back THAT fast. Now he's become rude and cold and tells me, "We are NOT getting back together."
    He still says: "I am never going to be done with you because you will always be in my life. I don't know if I will be with you in the way you want again when I'm not like this.but I'm not going to leave you alone. And I'm not saying "I don't know" in a doubtful way. I just don't know at all."

    He said this responding to me saying that I felt abandoned by the way he ended it. He also said that if I could think of anything he could do to make it easier for me or make me not feel like that, he would try it. I see this as genuine, but truth is there is little he can do. I want to feel good about myself again. How is someone who doesn't want me or even seem to like me supposed to help me with that? I think him saying things like that is about the best he can do. I don't think there is much hope of anything too close when I think about this. Because as long as he can just 'not know' whether he wants to be with me at the drop of a hat, I can't be comfortable with him. I also don't think he'll ever have the energy or motivation to treat me how he'd have to for me to believe he was finally committed. I just try not to think about all that because it hurts. It's also possible that he has 'hooked up' with one of his friends. I just can't think about that either. If I were you I'd avoid thinking about this new gf of his.

    I hear an echo in this post. Haha. But only because I sincerely mean it. I understand what you're going through in a very, very up close and personal way.
    I have to say the worst thing about this situation is dealing with my OWN intensity. Is it the same for you? These mood swings are unbearable sometimes. I get a bit of relief and then this terrible feeling just washes over me and it is impossible to will it away. I can try to self sooth, distract myself,etc., but it just goes when it goes. I can't control it. I'm fighting off tears in the middle of a wonderful vacation. I'm so anxious even when there is nothing happening. Things like that. And it's already been a month and a half with little change. It's scary.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  6. #26
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    Its that moment where you almost think you might be becoming a T . You scare yourself with how "cold and rational/unemotional" you appear to yourself. In retrospect, I always end up realizing that I was just being child-ish and seeing things only in black/white.
    I can really relate to that. On rare occasions I can become very numb to my emotions by coming to decisions I feel are rational and logical. Logic helps drive the emotion away. But later, I realize I was completely wrong about the entire situation, and if I had ended up mentioning it to someone else (especially the person involved), that only makes the situation a trillion times worse. And I just feel guilty.

    Being too direct (or at least being open about how I felt as often as I wanted to) is not even an option. He can't even handle the intensity of my happiness, optimism or affection when it comes out. Everything was suppressed to a point, making it more difficult to reveal anything when it DID need to come out without being too overwhelming for him. So I understand completely what you mean when you say it made you feel terrible about yourself.
    This was true for me, too. Yes, I was direct...but no, it was never a good idea. You might have STOPPED being direct, but I didn't. Either way, we still had the same problem in that our boyfriends couldn't handle our intensity and therefore we were terrified of being too honest.

    He said this responding to me saying that I felt abandoned by the way he ended it. He also said that if I could think of anything he could do to make it easier for me or make me not feel like that, he would try it. I see this as genuine, but truth is there is little he can do. I want to feel good about myself again. How is someone who doesn't want me or even seem to like me supposed to help me with that? I think him saying things like that is about the best he can do. I don't think there is much hope of anything too close when I think about this. Because as long as he can just 'not know' whether he wants to be with me at the drop of a hat, I can't be comfortable with him. I also don't think he'll ever have the energy or motivation to treat me how he'd have to for me to believe he was finally committed. I just try not to think about all that because it hurts. It's also possible that he has 'hooked up' with one of his friends. I just can't think about that either. If I were you I'd avoid thinking about this new gf of his.
    What I need is to avoid thinking about him at all. You need the same too, girly. My boyfriend was a wonderful boyfriend and tried hard to be, but he just didn't understand and accept me. And even when he tries to make me feel better, it's not going to work because I know he isn't happy with me.

    I have to say the worst thing about this situation is dealing with my OWN intensity. Is it the same for you? These mood swings are unbearable sometimes. I get a bit of relief and then this terrible feeling just washes over me and it is impossible to will it away. I can try to self sooth, distract myself,etc., but it just goes when it goes. I can't control it. I'm fighting off tears in the middle of a wonderful vacation. I'm so anxious even when there is nothing happening. Things like that. And it's already been a month and a half with little change. It's scary.
    That's the worst for me too. You've GOT to find a new man. I know how horrible it is. Nobody really understands how intense my emotions can get sometimes. It's been two months since it happened and I still have those swings back and forth all the time. It's almost like I'll NEVER get over him. I know that's just the "feeling" getting the better of me, though. A while from now, you may be just as attached to a new guy. Give someone else a chance. I know how hard that is...it feels like a portion of your life was wasted and you have no purpose. Like you did everything wrong and can't be loved. Like you'll never find anyone better and never be satisfied with a new relationship. At least that's how I feel sometimes.

    He just doesn't deserve you. He might be a really great guy, but he doesn't deserve your love if he won't give you his. That's how I have to think of it to pull myself out of this rut. You do not deserve to have to feel this way. No one should have to be put through that.

  7. #27
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spastic_Blondie View Post
    What I need is to avoid thinking about him at all. You need the same too, girly. My boyfriend was a wonderful boyfriend and tried hard to be, but he just didn't understand and accept me. And even when he tries to make me feel better, it's not going to work because I know he isn't happy with me.

    ...You've GOT to find a new man.
    I think it will be a LONG time till I look for anyone else. And I would probably reject the idea now even if I met someone by accident. I don't really believe in rebounding and I'm not in a good place for a relationship right now. The poor guy would have no idea what he was getting into and I wouldn't want to be with me right now. I'm all kinds of insecure right now. I wouldn't trust at all for a long time.

    I think for a young ENFJ it will be very difficult to manage being single when I feel so unloved and unwanted in general, but I just really shouldn't get with anyone right now.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  8. #28
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    Have you met an ENFJ in real life? Hard to miss it if you know them long enough or debate us.
    One of my best friends is an ENFJ and her "intensity" is what I like so much about her.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  9. #29
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Its that moment where you almost think you might be becoming a T . You scare yourself with how "cold and rational/unemotional" you appear to yourself. In retrospect, I always end up realizing that I was just being child-ish and seeing things only in black/white.
    ...
    Food and Music are my Se stress releases. Playing instrumental music (like tactile playing) seems to just take my mind to another planet. An added bonus is that when I return to this planet, my emotions seem to stay on that other planet (a good release).
    ...
    I've had this too. I would be way too nice to the point of being passive, or be too forward and steamroller-ish. Sometimes its going from "really caring" to really not caring! Over time I've learned how to calibrate it better.
    These three points are really strong with me. The intensity goes both ways. I can be extremely passionate, compassionate and warm. I can be the most selfless, loving and nurturing person... and then just cold, apathetic and methodical. It can be scary either way. Those I am closest to are all fine with it. They forgive quickly when I'm abrasive, blunt or apathetic. They are tolerant when I smother them with affection and praise or push them to look at the future. They all know my true thoughts and feelings mean well and I come back to that. I apologize and I work on my intensity for them and they realize it.

    The ISTP is the only person I've ever been close to that just never accepted me. He turns away or hides from me. He says he "likes my intensity" but has admitted he only thinks I am nice when I am happy. I have to be intensely happy and then he likes me, otherwise he is intimidated and uncomfortable with me. Of course, he makes me very happy sometimes but our relationship has made me very unhappy, so it was always a roller coaster and I never had control over it unless I could control my feelings under stress.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    The ISTP is the only person I've ever been close to that just never accepted me. He turns away or hides from me. He says he "likes my intensity" but has admitted he only thinks I am nice when I am happy. I have to be intensely happy and then he likes me, otherwise he is intimidated and uncomfortable with me. Of course, he makes me very happy sometimes but our relationship has made me very unhappy, so it was always a roller coaster and I never had control over it unless I could control my feelings under stress.
    For me, one of the things he liked most about me was my "passion." Yet it is, ironically, the thing that drove him away. Controlling my feelings under stress is literally one of the hardest things for me to do.

    You have a good point, by the way. Now would probably be a bad time to get involved in another relationship while you still feel so insecure.
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