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  1. #21
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperado44 View Post
    I'm coming to the conclusion that ENFJ's......even those with healthy boundaries, etc.........seem to get used a lot.

    Has anyone else noticed that?

    Whether its in a romantic relationship or in some other form......I just notice that we ENFJ's seem to get used by people, taken for granted, etc.....
    And how is this mind set working for you?
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    I remember reading in Tieger's book that Fi users when things go wrong blame themselves (well, mostly true?) and Fe users blame others. I dont know about Fe, I had verrrryyyyyyy baaaaaaad experience with ENFJ and it was like that. She was actually able to ditch people really easily, and find new friends and never blamed herself.

    I was thinking about opening thread once about this generalization, but.. didnt feel like it

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  4. #24
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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  5. #25
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloee View Post
    I remember reading in Tieger's book that Fi users when things go wrong blame themselves (well, mostly true?) and Fe users blame others. I dont know about Fe, I had verrrryyyyyyy baaaaaaad experience with ENFJ and it was like that. She was actually able to ditch people really easily, and find new friends and never blamed herself.

    I was thinking about opening thread once about this generalization, but.. didnt feel like it
    I think it's more about how you where raised really. If you where raised to take personal accountability you will, and if you haven't been taught that you won't. After a certain point though, blaming others has to come full circle to blame yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    For ENFJs in the habit of diving into frigid waters to save the drowning, ask yourself these questions before you go leaping in:

    1. What's my stake/investment in this? Am I operating on my own agenda, e.g. egostroke or having someone indebted to me?
    2. Do I have the energy and resources to expend to this person? Is it fair to them and me to give a half-ass attempt if they're in a bad situation and need more attention?
    3. Why are they there in the first place? What's the real deal with what's going on? What version of events is the truest version?


    To some, that may sound cold but it's helped me immensely. If someone is giving me a boo-hoo story and I feel tugging at my heartstings but then as I learn more things become inconsistent and puzzling: RED FLAG. If someone is constantly telling me how they've been victimized repeatedly are always being taken advantage of never done right: RED FLAG. When I observe their actions, behaviors and attitudes and see how they get themselves into the situations they're in and how things aren't necessarily how they perceive them: RED FLAG. These red flags don't necessarily mean Do Not Enter, just Proceed with Caution.

    Once again, you've got to decide your level of investment and what you can realistically give to the person. There's a difference between standing with someone who has things happen to them out of their control, like losing their job or being diagnosed with a disease. Someone who consistently puts themselves into situations and around people that are stupid and dangerous...well that's their bad. What can you do about that if they've been told that's not a direction you want to go multiple times.

    The sad truth of the matter is some people have weights attached to their ankles and when you go out there to save them unless you're an Olympic level swimmer, you'll sink right to the bottom with them. For some people, it's their own karma coming back to them. For some, it's an issue of maturity and you just happened to meet them in a point in their lives that at a cross with yours. Some people are out there drowning because they need to figure out a way to save themselves. They have gotten help and countless saves from their loved ones and foolishly continued along a path of destruction. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved and you can't guide someone who doesn't think they're lost.

    Yeah, it's really cool for ENFJs to think of themselves as the shepherd herding all the lost sheep, but then again you've got to remember sheep are dumb as hell and don't have free will like humans. All you can do is put the options on the table, lay out the pros and cons, and hope they take you up on it. Maybe these people who have used you in the past will magically gain some sort of conscious and realize what they did and seek forgiveness. Maybe the won't. Either way, your main concern is how do I prevent this from happening to me again. You know that saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"? There needs to be some critical self-analysis on why you keep finding yourself in similar situations with similar people. Is there someone who you can talk to about this pattern in your life? Until then, you're just going to be bitter and constantly victimized and starting threads like this every six months.

    I saw this movie a few months ago called A Prophet. I thought to myself, wow this kid just needed someone to show him the way and teach him and once he got that mentorship and education he shot up like a weed. But he wanted it, he was hungry for it and his energy could be harvested and directed. He was receptive--there was no need to use a cattle prod and goad him to action. Learn to recognize those that are hungry for a change because they are more invested and motivated in their freedom as you are to help them. Inspiring and motivating those who aren't isn't impossible, but is difficult. If you are specifically attracted to those people, then once again I advise you to be smart about it.

    I say all this because I've been there...not that I was used the way you may be, but just because I had three "friends" in my early-20s that let me know I had to clean house. These people helped me learn to be more discerning about who I let close to me.
    Thank you. No matter which NF you are, if you are constantly used by people, it is not your type's inevitability, it's your fault that you didn't set up proper boundaries and recognize your own limits.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
    I think it's more about how you where raised really. If you where raised to take personal accountability you will, and if you haven't been taught that you won't. After a certain point though, blaming others has to come full circle to blame yourself.
    I am sure it has something to do with how you were raised but not much i think... :/ and also it can be linked to period in your life

    just to make clear : i dont think blaming others is worse than blaming yourself, it's often way better, blaming yourself can be really fucked up and not neccessary, over blown...

  8. #28
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloee View Post
    I am sure it has something to do with how you were raised but not much i think... :/ and also it can be linked to period in your life

    just to make clear : i dont think blaming others is worse than blaming yourself, it's often way better, blaming yourself can be really fucked up and not neccessary, over blown...
    I'm saying this because I have seen the blame of others from alot of really unhealthy Fi users more than Fe users. Maybe you have seen different though.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
    I'm saying this because I have seen the blame of others from alot of really unhealthy Fi users more than Fe users. Maybe you have seen different though.
    I didnt notice some big pattern, except that Fi users are prone to self blame too. But I just wrote what I read in that book and since it seemed too big generalization i got interested in subject.

    maybe applies more to Fi and Fe doms. Like IxFPs blaming more themselves, ExFJs more others

  10. #30
    Senior Member Desperado44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I reeeaaaaaally think you should speak for yourself. This is the third or fourth thread you've made to this effect and every time you get the same advice of what you can do to lessen the effects of being your being used and then you show up again months later with the same song.

    What do you want people to say? Commiserate and the chorus of "Me too"? Validate your POV no matter how accurate or inaccurate it is? No one here knows you personally so what can we give you that will be meaty and substantial for you besides empty validation? What does starting thread here and getting the same advice do to solve your problems? I don't agree that ENFJs get used a lot, I think people with weak boundaries, the inability to say NO, and those that feel a compulsive need to rescue and save like it's an assignment from Mission:Impossible get used a lot.

    For ENFJs in the habit of diving into frigid waters to save the drowning, ask yourself these questions before you go leaping in:

    1. What's my stake/investment in this? Am I operating on my own agenda, e.g. egostroke or having someone indebted to me?
    2. Do I have the energy and resources to expend to this person? Is it fair to them and me to give a half-ass attempt if they're in a bad situation and need more attention?
    3. Why are they there in the first place? What's the real deal with what's going on? What version of events is the truest version?


    To some, that may sound cold but it's helped me immensely. If someone is giving me a boo-hoo story and I feel tugging at my heartstings but then as I learn more things become inconsistent and puzzling: RED FLAG. If someone is constantly telling me how they've been victimized repeatedly are always being taken advantage of never done right: RED FLAG. When I observe their actions, behaviors and attitudes and see how they get themselves into the situations they're in and how things aren't necessarily how they perceive them: RED FLAG. These red flags don't necessarily mean Do Not Enter, just Proceed with Caution.

    Once again, you've got to decide your level of investment and what you can realistically give to the person. There's a difference between standing with someone who has things happen to them out of their control, like losing their job or being diagnosed with a disease. Someone who consistently puts themselves into situations and around people that are stupid and dangerous...well that's their bad. What can you do about that if they've been told that's not a direction you want to go multiple times.

    The sad truth of the matter is some people have weights attached to their ankles and when you go out there to save them unless you're an Olympic level swimmer, you'll sink right to the bottom with them. For some people, it's their own karma coming back to them. For some, it's an issue of maturity and you just happened to meet them in a point in their lives that at a cross with yours. Some people are out there drowning because they need to figure out a way to save themselves. They have gotten help and countless saves from their loved ones and foolishly continued along a path of destruction. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved and you can't guide someone who doesn't think they're lost.

    Yeah, it's really cool for ENFJs to think of themselves as the shepherd herding all the lost sheep, but then again you've got to remember sheep are dumb as hell and don't have free will like humans. All you can do is put the options on the table, lay out the pros and cons, and hope they take you up on it. Maybe these people who have used you in the past will magically gain some sort of conscious and realize what they did and seek forgiveness. Maybe the won't. Either way, your main concern is how do I prevent this from happening to me again. You know that saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"? There needs to be some critical self-analysis on why you keep finding yourself in similar situations with similar people. Is there someone who you can talk to about this pattern in your life? Until then, you're just going to be bitter and constantly victimized and starting threads like this every six months.

    I saw this movie a few months ago called A Prophet. I thought to myself, wow this kid just needed someone to show him the way and teach him and once he got that mentorship and education he shot up like a weed. But he wanted it, he was hungry for it and his energy could be harvested and directed. He was receptive--there was no need to use a cattle prod and goad him to action. Learn to recognize those that are hungry for a change because they are more invested and motivated in their freedom as you are to help them. Inspiring and motivating those who aren't isn't impossible, but is difficult. If you are specifically attracted to those people, then once again I advise you to be smart about it.

    I say all this because I've been there...not that I was used the way you may be, but just because I had three "friends" in my early-20s that let me know I had to clean house. These people helped me learn to be more discerning about who I let close to me.

    And dude seriously, if I see another thread like this I'm going to merge them all into one supermega-sized ENFJ Victimization thread and pass out pixie sticks to use as weapons against the unsuspecting.
    Okay. Fair enough. Tough to read.....that hurt..... but I appreciate your honesty and desire to give it to me...... I have to digest this one a bit before I respond. There is a lot of truth in these thoughts......thank you.
    I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. --- Maya Angelou

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