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  1. #31
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Pretty much what eclare said. My respect will not be lost in one small incident. However, it will be lost if the person shows signs all round of poor character and is doing nothing to change it. I probably am influenced too by why people act the way they do. While I don't believe in excusing bad behaviour that way, it gives better context for understanding it.

  2. #32
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Some of it seems to stem from me feeling that by vouching for them, my judgement of character or my selection of people is on the line. I would also go to greater lengths for them though and so I would show my care for them more than an acquaintance by risking the chance of creating conflict by getting to the bottom of information that doesn't match up or calling them out privately on their behaviour and why they are doing what they are. If they don't change, I would not drop them as a friend, but I would take several steps backwards because I no longer trust them.
    ah. I gotcha. Yeah, I've got to be REALLY close to someone to do this. It's kind of those 'inspected by 28' slips of paper that get stuck into shirt packages; the people I hold most important to me are reflections on my morals. That ENP I dated for a long time would occasionally verbally bully people and it would really embarrass me. I think most of our fights were actually about the way he treated others.
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  3. #33
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    How do you decide who to befriend? Do you test them, or is it a search for commonalities? It's probably a combination, but which do you rely on more in deciding who to let into your inner realm?

  4. #34
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    It keeps possible conflict at a minimum, which is understandable. I just saw it... I don't really know how I saw this, it just seems that if an action can be justified, rationally that is, to judge them for it seems strange. Just because they didn't handle it the way you would've doesn't mean it was the wrong way, and at times it is, grand scheme of things and such.

    This directed towards the second post above me.
    Let me give you an example. I met a friend when I was going to a workshop in the States and he was counselling at a music camp. We hung around together for two weeks. (we were 19 and 20). After I left, we continued writing long letters for a couple of years, even though things between us were not romantic. Occasionally we talked on the phone (that was back when it was still expensive to do so). He ended up asking if he could come for a visit, for something fun to do during the summer. I explained that I would be very busy at that time and that my uncle had just gotten his leg amputated and would be in the hospital. If he didn't mind going with the flow, he was more than welcome. If he wanted to be entertained, I probably would not be able to. He agreed to coming under those terms and booked a flight for a week. I picked him up at the airport with my three year old nephew, whom I'd promised to take to the park in the city where the plane came in (which this guy also knew would be happening). He acted really strange, made fun of the amusement park we went to and acted odd the whole way home (1 1/2 hr drive). My mum met us at home with fresh brownies and ice cream. He declined. She had never laid eyes on him but my parents had graciously welcomed him there for the week. He answered her questions in one word replies and went to his bedroom, put on headphones and shut the door. Thus began several days of awfulness - him going on long walks alone, I suggesting activities we could go to and he acting distainful, him boasting to my relatives of all his accomplishments. My folks were going to our garden to get some corn and potatoes for supper. He obviously felt put out that I was planning on working along with them. None of these were behaviours which were apparent before. I was embarrassed, a little hurt, and mostly felt ridiculous for having agreed to him coming in the first place.

    I ended up becoming very angry and finally telling him that since this obviously was not what he had been expecting, my feelings would not be hurt if he decided to try to change his ticket in for sooner. He ended up talking then, saying that he felt like he had run away from a bad situation at home and that maybe he had been cowardly. He also realized that we were very busy and that this was probably not the best of times to have visited (although we hadn't made him feel that way). He apologized for his behaviour and said he'd like to stay if we'd still have him. The rest of the visit was completely different: he played with my nephews (they still remember him fondly and they are grown up), we went on walks, we joked around, played music etc, he visited with my mom in a normal sort of way...

    In retrospect, I realize that the weird changes in behaviour came from unfamiliar surroundings and insecurity. We have remained friends and more than once he has thanked me for a glimpse into normal family life and said that it greatly impacted him.

  5. #35
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Some of it seems to stem from me feeling that by vouching for them, my judgement of character or my selection of people is on the line.
    Relate to this 100%

    I have found at times that I am reluctant to introduce different sets of friends whom I'm close to, to each other. I feel like I would need to be able to predict how they would react to each other and that they would like each other, or else maybe it says something about what a poor judge of people I am. Even with a potential SO, I'd rather people meet him when we aren't as close and I could take a step back if it wasn't what I thought it was going to be like when I introduced him to people who mattered to me. Otherwise, I feel embarrassment, anger and yet a sense of trying to prove that my judgement wasn't so out of whack. I don't know how to describe it properly or if anyone else identifies, but I've had to battle that tendancy in myself sometimes.
    No, I get it. I think I'm pretty much the same. I want my friends to be a reflection of who I am. If I have a good friend, whom I respect very much, react very negatively to another one of my friends or my S.O., I would feel the need to take a step back and assess everything, and I might question my judgment. Of one or the other. Or of myself. Thanks for verbalizing it.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #36
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    How do you decide who to befriend? Do you test them, or is it a search for commonalities? It's probably a combination, but which do you rely on more in deciding who to let into your inner realm?
    Deciding who to befriend is based on a basic understanding of their values, combined with shared interests and some aspects of personality. Who I let in closer is based on time spent together, how well they understand me, shared experiences, the ability for me to predict their likely reactions to more sensitive information/their discretion, as well as how they act when I do let them into the next level. If they don't seem to realize that they don't wipe their muddy feet on the white carpet, they are not allowed into that chamber of my heart until trust is rebuilt (or it just is an indicator that that's as far as they should be allowed in).

  7. #37
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    ah. I gotcha. Yeah, I've got to be REALLY close to someone to do this. It's kind of those 'inspected by 28' slips of paper that get stuck into shirt packages; the people I hold most important to me are reflections on my morals. That ENP I dated for a long time would occasionally verbally bully people and it would really embarrass me. I think most of our fights were actually about the way he treated others.
    My ESTJ would act all friendly to some peoples' faces, yet bring them up disparagingly when in a group with other people, or pass on gossip. We had some big fights about stuff like that. I didn't want to see him get into trouble over it, and I also don't think that you should kick a person when they're down. I figured that if you dislike someone, the least you can do is be neutral or let them feel your dislike slightly rather than being two-faced. He also got much more boastful and larger than life in public and tended to colour his stories a little too highly. Any negatives he felt were hugely negative and the positives were over the top. It made me feel uncomfortable because I wasn't sure whether his private or his public persona were truly him. Sometimes his opinions on things would flip flop depending on who he was trying to impress or what company he was in.

  8. #38
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Fair enough.

  9. #39
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Relate to this 100%



    No, I get it. I think I'm pretty much the same. I want my friends to be a reflection of who I am. If I have a good friend, whom I respect very much, react very negatively to another one of my friends or my S.O., I would feel the need to take a step back and assess everything, and I might question my judgment. Of one or the other. Or of myself. Thanks for verbalizing it.
    Glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes I have to be careful that I don't keep my worlds too separate though. What can begin at caution between certain friends meeting or hesitancy to express certain likes or ideas can end up becoming secrecy or deception and that is not good.

  10. #40
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes I have to be careful that I don't keep my worlds too separate though. What can begin at caution between certain friends meeting or hesitancy to express certain likes or ideas can end up becoming secrecy or deception and that is not good.
    Nope, I agree. For the most part my friends have all been fine with one another when they have met, but truly we're all in different circles so the only time a few have met have been at a dinner event or moving-out-of-apartment thing; we don't all hang out together.

    One example -- I could tell one of my INFJ friends back in MN wasn't terribly keen on one of my good friends and she thought a few of my other acquaintances were weird, when she briefly met them when I was moving out of my apartment (she didn't say this, I just knew by her behavior and what she *didn't* say ), but I didn't take it to heart because she's somewhat 'mainstream' in comparison to these other friends, so I expected no less. I have one other dear friend who is so 'out there' that I'm quite certain the rest of my friends wouldn't know what to think of him if they ever met him, but they won't because he's always off the radar and is currently galavanting around south america ; I wouldn't be embarassed but I would also, again, expect my other friends to find him very odd.

    It can still be uncomfortable, though, knowing what they think.

    I'm probably most on-edge in introducing someone I'm dating, though. Because I WILL take their opinions/reactions to heart, and that might cause me to look at the guy in a different way. Also, it's important that my friends like the guy I'm with and vice versa and everyone gets along, because I don't want to have to keep everyone segregated.... with a guy I'm potentially see something longterm with.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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