[ENFP] ENFP girlfriend confusing me! Help!

[fecaleagle]

well damn...and you called her a fair weather friend...or fan...didn't you? or did i make that up...anyway...if you can turn it off like that. what does that tell you?

not saying it's wrong...just honest...honesty is good. if you can turn it off what does that mean to you?

It tells me that you can't have a one-sided relationship. Maybe others can, but I can't stay in love with someone who is not in love with me. Or not in enough love to be in a relationship. I mean sure, I could wait, let the resentment build up from her indecision, stay in the relationship..and then watch it end. Wouldn't it be best to end it before this can happen? I want to be a fully loving relationship with no bad feelings about the other person. I'm just scared that I'll start having negative feelings for her because I don't feel important enough to her

 

[Lady_X]

hmm...well to be totally honest. i can't relate to her need for space right now. i can't imagine needing more than a couple days. i take my time deciding lots of things...i'm a 100% p! haha but in romantic relationships...i can't dwell in a negative unresolved place for too long and i know exactly how i feel. the only reason i said what i did was because i don't think truly deep love disappears so easily.

 

[fecaleagle]

^ Gag me. Based on your last couple of replies, If I were you I'd let it go and work on *you*. You sound like an emotional girl. This has clearly defeated you. I don't think you have what it takes to cultivate love with anyone at this point. You have to first identity the root of the problem before you can fix it. Take Esoteric Wenches recommendation and reach for that oxygen mask... now breathe, relax, release. I deleted my replies to this thread, which would have helped you the most right now. I deleted my posts is because I don't like to waste my words, if people don't care to listen. Your disrespectful reply to me indicates you don't care. Now I know how your girlfriend feels. I spent quality time trying to understand you (probably the same way your GF did) and then you shot me down. Not cool. I sincerely wanted to help you.



^ I'm with you on all of that.

Holy shit. Get the fuck over yourself! Everyone in this thread has been telling me to give her space and not to force anything, and you come in and tell me to do the opposite. I disagree with your opinion and you go ape shit? Calling me emotional? What I've said in the last few posts were from a strictly intellectual perspective. My first few posts were the ones that were emotional. So I "disrespect" you by saying that it seems like you are suggesting that I play a game, and you go and delete your holy and divine posts because now you deem me unworthy of your omniscience. Clearly everyone in the this thread including me has been wrong, I am so glad you could come in and grace us with your presence. The way I "treated you" has nothing to do with my girlfriend. You are not her. I couldn't give a flying fuck about you, and would appreciate if you stayed the fuck out of my thread.

hmm...well to be totally honest. i can't relate to her need for space right now. i can't imagine needing more than a couple days. i take my time deciding lots of things...i'm a 100% p! haha but in romantic relationships...i can't dwell in a negative unresolved place for too long and i know exactly how i feel. the only reason i said what i did was because i don't think truly deep love disappears so easily.

I didn't mean that my love would just disappear like that. I meant that at some point, I have to realize that it's best to walk away no matter how hard it is, and start the slow process of making the love go away. I care about her very, very deeply, and I thought that I had made that apparent throughout this thread. Again, please realize that my posts are coming from a logical place, and have little reflection of my emotions, other than every now and then.

 

[Lady_X]

Holy shit. Get the fuck over yourself! Everyone in this thread has been telling me to give her space and not to force anything, and you come in and tell me to do the opposite. I disagree with your opinion and you go ape shit? Calling me emotional? What I've said in the last few posts were from a strictly intellectual perspective. My first few posts were the ones that were emotional. So I "disrespect" you by saying that it seems like you are suggesting that I play a game, and you go and delete your holy and divine posts because now you deem me unworthy of your omniscience. Clearly everyone in the this thread including me has been wrong, I am so glad you could come in and grace us with your presence. The way I "treated you" has nothing to do with my girlfriend. You are not her. I couldn't give a flying fuck about you, and would appreciate if you stayed the fuck out of my thread.



I didn't mean that my love would just disappear like that. I meant that at some point, I have to realize that it's best to walk away no matter how hard it is, and start the slow process of making the love go away. I care about her very, very deeply, and I thought that I had made that apparent throughout this thread. Again, please realize that my posts are coming from a logical place, and have little reflection of my emotions, other than every now and then.

yeah sure i get it....i so need things like this resolved quickly. i wouldn't be cool with waiting for as long as you have either....you need to move forward...together or apart and you just need to know.

has there been any indication whatsoever that she has been unhappy before this happened? i just know myself...and i wouldn't leave someone i was crazy in love with hanging like this...i would know how i feel and want to resolve it quickly.

 

[Rebe]

I see where Fecaleagle is coming from (not the convo with perfect-girl, what he said about love and waiting). I couldn't wait and I am F-based and enjoys my emotions more than INTJs. Imagine an INTJ waiting like that - must be complete torture. Also, I believe INTJs pride themselves in self-control and independence. It's really like a fish out of water for him. I don't think he love her less if he walks away. I think there's just a limit to his love, which is different from an NF love. I see where he is coming from.

I am also surprised that she is still contemplating after receiving a love letter from you and all those logical and emotional explanations. That's...taking it way too far. I am afraid to say that perhaps something else is up...

Also ... XNFP need strong men? I like strong men, but not in a needy, let me cry on your shoulder, solve all my problems way. I am a strong woman and I solve my own problems, thanks. I freak out a lot and is emotionally wavy so if I am with someone who is just as *wavy*, it'd be a big mess. I don't need a pillar to *lean* on, but I want it next to me. Does that make sense? I am really tired.

 

[Moiety]

i know what you're saying and agree to a point but i think a partnership becomes stronger when you can trust each other to catch you when you fall...if they can be strong during your moments of weaknesses and vice versa...like in dance...she can leap up into your arms and know you'll catch her...same thing with feeling safe to be vulnerable...opening yourself up...knowing they'll be there...that's what true intimacy is all about...we're all fallible...and knowing your partner loves and supports you through the weaker times is really important.

A partnership isn't about just leaping in one direction and expecting your partner to catch you every time though. It's a partnership because both people have strength to offer and to justify the enterprise of life. If any duo of heroes depended on the other for one particular thing every time...they would fail if the other one couldn't be there every time. This is dependency and is a concept so easy to grasp that I don't know how someone could be ok with it. Where is personal growth in the midst of all of this?

Also ... XNFP need strong men? I like strong men, but not in a needy, let me cry on your shoulder, solve all my problems way. I am a strong woman and I solve my own problems, thanks. I freak out a lot and is emotionally wavy so if I am with someone who is just as *wavy*, it'd be a big mess. I don't need a pillar to *lean* on, but I want it next to me. Does that make sense? I am really tired.

Yeah it makes sense. You need a strong man. That's basically what you said.
Well I don't know what a strong man is. And dunno why NFP women can't be strong themselves.


And this was basically what I was hinting at before. If it can't be equal, if you can't accept someone being as "wavy" as you...you already lost the game.

 

[copperfish17]

Emotional reasoning VS. Intellectual reasoning! I watch with morbid fascination.





Rebe, I'm curious about the distinction you're making on NF vs NT love (your post sort of implies that NT's have limits to their love, unlike NF's). Would you mind explaining some more?

 

[Moiety]

^ Seriously folks, do I have to spell everything out? Let's try to take things at face value here and not overanalyze life, love and the pursuit of happiness. This thread is making me feel like I have a really high I.Q. and it's starting to give me a complex. I'm trying to see if a mod can restore the posts I deleted. I'm truly authentic, right about how I feel, and best of all I'm real. That makes me very proud and happy!

...for those still going in circles in this thread, take note of what I just said.

...to the latest poster, nobody said anything about needy, emotional dependancy or anybody catching up. I know the exact posts you're referring to and you've gone way off course. Don't make me have to explain this all over again! GRRRR....

You obviously don't know the exact posts I'm referring to. And I'm going where I want to go.

Take a chill pill.

 

[fecaleagle]

She sent me an immature message saying things about how she is upset that I removed her as a facebook friend and blocked her calls, for a day (the night when I said the mean stuff). And that those were "actions" not "words". lol. I guess technically so, but it's a moot point. Tonight I told her that I cannot wait any longer, that she has to decide. She said she needed more time, so I ended it. Oh well, it obviously wasn't meant to be Moving on will suck, but the sooner I get started the better. Hopefully I'll find someone who truly appreciates my strengths and weaknesses not too long from now. Thanks for all of the immense help everyone! I did learn a whole bunch about feelings and emotions, which should hopefully make my next relationship perfect. I guess tomorrow I'll burn our pictures, cards, etc, and delete all digital images I have of us and her There's no room for nostalgia now

 

[stringstheory]

sorry to hear that. good luck with moving on, be sensitive to the fact that she will probably need a lot more time than you to move on. Take what you learned and invest this knowledge and energy into your next relationship if this is indeed the path you will take. again, good luck.

 

[slowriot]

She sent me an immature message saying things about how she is upset that I removed her as a facebook friend and blocked her calls, for a day (the night when I said the mean stuff). And that those were "actions" not "words". lol. I guess technically so, but it's a moot point. Tonight I told her that I cannot wait any longer, that she has to decide. She said she needed more time, so I ended it. Oh well, it obviously wasn't meant to be Moving on will suck, but the sooner I get started the better. Hopefully I'll find someone who truly appreciates my strengths and weaknesses not too long from now. Thanks for all of the immense help everyone! I did learn a whole bunch about feelings and emotions, which should hopefully make my next relationship perfect. I guess tomorrow I'll burn our pictures, cards, etc, and delete all digital images I have of us and her There's no room for nostalgia now

I think it was wise to end it with her. But use it as a risky move for her to find out if she wants to be with you. Use the next week with retracting yourself slowly from her and if shes not returned then I would start deleting the past in small tempis. I dont personally believe its a good thing to remove yourself from her in an instant. Dont be bitter on her, give time to reflect on your relationship, let her slip out of your mind in a positive way and not a negative. Nostalgia is not so bad, it can be rather good an refreshing. How would you like your next casual meeting to unfold, do you want it to be negative so she might restart all the hurt again and again each time you meet or do you want it to be times when you thought back on a girl that met something very special to you.

Sometimes the most logical thing to do is not the wisest.

 

[copperfish17]

...the famous last words of a fool. I know you're a smart guy, but you'd be even smarter, if you would slow down and really listen to her and stop taking things so personally.

If anyone's taking things too personally, it's OP's girlfriend. With all due respect, don't YOU take this personally.

Anyhow, fecaleagle, I say you deserve better than a girl who can't even decide if she really wants to be with you or not. But do listen to slowriot. He/she has some good advice for you.

 

[Lady_X]

A partnership isn't about just leaping in one direction and expecting your partner to catch you every time though. It's a partnership because both people have strength to offer and to justify the enterprise of life. If any duo of heroes depended on the other for one particular thing every time...they would fail if the other one couldn't be there every time. This is dependency and is a concept so easy to grasp that I don't know how someone could be ok with it. Where is personal growth in the midst of all of this?




Yeah it makes sense. You need a strong man. That's basically what you said.
Well I don't know what a strong man is. And dunno why NFP women can't be strong themselves.


And this was basically what I was hinting at before. If it can't be equal, if you can't accept someone being as "wavy" as you...you already lost the game.

i totally don't have time to reply properly right now but...no where there did i say anything about all the time...i didn't mean that people are constantly weak and need to support each other...only that i am someone who has lived a bit of life...life throws crazy things at you and sometimes in life one needs someone to hold their hand...emotional support through death in the family...marriage and children will bring all kinds of things your way...at times partners will need to lean on each other. you seem to be missing my point sy....i'll expand later.

 

[Rebe]

Emotional reasoning VS. Intellectual reasoning! I watch with morbid fascination.





Rebe, I'm curious about the distinction you're making on NF vs NT love (your post sort of implies that NT's have limits to their love, unlike NF's). Would you mind explaining some more?

I am morbidly fascinated by this thread also - the reasoning-s must be interesting to me too, though I didn't separate it as such ... but ... mm, it's true. Though I always hate it when it is separated into NFs emotional and NTs intellectual.

NTs and NFs both have limits, of course, but the limits are different (I am tossing this out there). For example this thread. The ENFP's limit is when the INTJ hurt her (assuming now beyond repair and redemption, throwing her into this crazy uncertainty, etc, etc). The INTJ's limit is when she refuse to listen to him when he has done everything (in his mind) to fix it. All logic points that he must cut ties and end it. For the ENFP, all emotions point that she needs space and to re-think the entire relationship. The INTJ is unwilling to give her that emotional flexibility and uncertainty, that space that she needs. The ENFP is unwilling to accept his explanations and apologies, his "constructed package" to fix their relationship. INTJs accept and wants to move forward in the new situation and put the emotions behind but the ENFP is thoroughly wounded that she can't put the emotions behind her.

I think to put it simply when the facts are presented to the Ts, they accept despite their emotional attachments. And for the Fs, even when the facts are presented, they still believe that it may work or not work because of these emotions that needs time to shift, to heal, to calm down. Again with anything, it's a spectrum, not two boxes of "emotional reasoning" and "intellectual reasoning". For some situations, NFs can shift all the way to the intellectual box and make a decision that is right but is completely against how they feel. Say, I am in love but I have to move abroad to live for three years. Obviously I need to break up with the person and I will do it but it will be incredibly hard and I will probably be very uncertain if it is right. For a T, the facts are there and the decision must be made. If I am emotionally hurt by that said loved person though and the line has been crossed, I will have no problems walking away. Whereas the T might be able to shift through the hurt feelings, find evidence of happy past memories and etc and be able to work through it because logic is still on their side. That means the weaknesses to these two 'preferences' is different but both exist. Logic sometimes collide with "love" and snip it from happening or end it before it really has to end (take chances, believe in someone despite odds, etc). Logic though sometimes is correct and is the best thing to do, despite the emotions. But sometimes emotions can change a situation, sometimes emotions is more important than logic, and make the logic behind the situation incorrect or irrelevant (sometimes).

There's a lot of flexibility and leeway to what I said above, but that's what I have noticed so far and I have intensely liked two Ts.

 

[PeaceBaby]

She said she needed more time, so I ended it. Oh well, it obviously wasn't meant to be

Too bad you didn't respond to my post in this thread. And I would defer deleting images / burning pics etc ... you'll probably regret that.

 

[stringstheory]

I think it was wise to end it with her. But use it as a risky move for her to find out if she wants to be with you. Use the next week with retracting yourself slowly from her and if shes not returned then I would start deleting the past in small tempis. I dont personally believe its a good thing to remove yourself from her in an instant. Dont be bitter on her, give time to reflect on your relationship, let her slip out of your mind in a positive way and not a negative. Nostalgia is not so bad, it can be rather good an refreshing. How would you like your next casual meeting to unfold, do you want it to be negative so she might restart all the hurt again and again each time you meet or do you want it to be times when you thought back on a girl that met something very special to you.

Sometimes the most logical thing to do is not the wisest.

This. Sometimes we need a fire under our ass, otherwise we will never make a decision. Maybe having to be faced with the very real prospect of losing you will bring her to a decision. Granted it is unfair to yourself to have to wait so long, but there's so much swimming around in our heads and our hearts that it can sometimes be REALLY, REALLY difficult to make a decision, especially when the wrong one can hurt us, so sometimes decisions arev very difficult to make.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

This thread is making me feel like I have a really high I.Q. and it's starting to give me a complex.... Don't make me have to explain this all over again! GRRRR....

Gag me... You sound like an emotional girl. This has clearly defeated you. I don't think you have what it takes to cultivate love with anyone at this point... I deleted my replies... I don't like to waste my words, if people don't care to listen. Your disrespectful reply indicates you don't care. Now I know how your girlfriend feels. I spent quality time trying to understand you (probably the same way your GF did) and then you shot me down.

Seriously folks, do I have to spell everything out?

...the famous last words of a fool.

Holy crap PerfectGirl. Your posts have a judgmental and vituperative quality that I would not expect from an INFP. I applaud you for trying to give fecaleagle your best advice. But the way you are sharing this advice is off-putting... at least to me.

There is hardly ever just ONE right way to do something. The way I read your posts, you feel like you know what's the best course of action. Most everyone else is giving fecaleagle bad advice. And, you're a little frustrated because people aren't instantly agreeing with what you think is the self-evident truth here.

If I may humbly suggest, you might be focusing so much on the way you think things ought to be, that you are undervaluing the facts of the situation including feedback from the people involved. It seems to me that you feel like you have THE answer and that hardly anyone else on this thread sees the truth. While statistically it's possible, it's very unlikely that PerfectGirl is the only one with the keys to the kingdom.

I don't want to derail the thread by getting us too off topic, but I did want to gently suggest to PerfectGirl that you make sure you're not rejecting any incoming information that seems to be at odds with your obviously very strong opinions in this matter. Perhaps you can spend some time trying to understand how fecaleagle and others on this thread see the situation. (You can read more on this here.)

....................................

Finally, and to bring this back around to the stated topic of this thread, fecaleagle I would recommend waiting at least a week or two before getting rid of all remnants of your relationship. You can still move forward and compartmentalize these things. I understand your need for closure, but certain things once done cannot be undone. Give it a couple of weeks to see if you get a surprise knock on your door. If you don't by say... July 14th, burn it all in honor of Bastille Day. Vive La Independence!

 

[fecaleagle]

Yeah..I mean at this point I still love her more than anything and see a great potential for us to improve ourselves and the relationship, but since she didn't see that I had to let her go. I was willing to change in areas that could hurt her, what more could I do? The more and more I think about it and read some of these posts, the more convinced I am that she is interested in another guy. Things just do not add up. My gut is telling me she'll be dating soon enough, further reaffirming my decision

Give it a couple of weeks to see if you get a surprise knock on your door. If you don't by say... July 14th, burn it all in honor of Bastille Day. Vive La Independence!

Guess that wouldn't hurt! I can hope for this to happen, and when it doesn't I'll feel even better because I did my part and stepped up and she didn't. I'm certain she won't come because her love was and is not deep enough, despite all of her mushy words. In the end, actions speak greater than words, and I am proud to have stayed true to that

 

[Esoteric Wench]

fecaleagle, I'm sorry things didn't turn out the way you wanted, but I think you've grown a lot from this situation. She's just a plot point in your story. And you are a better man to have gone through this period of personal reflection and growth.

At least you now have skills and knowledge that no one can ever take away from you. And, in your next important relationship, you'll be able to use these to your and her advantage.

 

[slowriot]

Yeah..I mean at this point I still love her more than anything and see a great potential for us to improve ourselves and the relationship, but since she didn't see that I had to let her go. I was willing to change in areas that could hurt her, what more could I do? The more and more I think about it and read some of these posts, the more convinced I am that she is interested in another guy. Things just do not add up. My gut is telling me she'll be dating soon enough, further reaffirming my decision

So what if she is? You are making conspiracy theories in your head that will just keep you trapped in your own emotional crap. Be careful not to go into a downwards spiral. Plus as I said, this is a girl you shared some good times with why destroy that because of your own selfish feelings of rejection and pride?