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  1. #81
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    Well that is very self-righteous. Especially given what I've read about ENFPs making ridiculously bad judgment calls a lot of times. That sounds like something an INTJ would say (which would even be considered as coming off as cocky by our own standards lol), and I would trust a decision like that more with an INTJ over an ENFP, all else held equal. I just really believe that thinking is more likely to arrive at the correct decision than feeling, so hopefully she will implement her Te function, which I am glad has been developing as we have dated I mean feeling is great and all, but it just creates disasters that thinking fixes, hehe. She should know that as a her boyfriend, AND as an INTJ, I don't lie. It's just something I don't do. It's something I detest. It's something I don't get over (except I have forgiven my girlfriend before, after my center core was shattered like hers). She knows how I feel about lies. Lying (we're not talking just a white lie here) to me is like telling an ENFP that all they care about is themselves and that everything that they do to make people happy is an attempt to manipulate them and get what they want. She should know how big of a move it was for me to agree to forgive her, even though it has been a relatively slow process. That should be something she uses to help her come around. Of course I won't tell her that, that would be emotional blackmail. And although my forgiving hasn't been an overnight process, I have still maintained love while rebuilding trust separately, and did not do it with her out of my life like she wants to do with me. I don't get why people can't say something they don't mean in a time of weakness. Like I said, I'm leaving it all in her hands now. I've done everything I can to be the best boyfriend I can before the argument, and directly after the argument. If she can't see that, I think I'm better off with a non-ENFP that is not a fair weather fan.

    This parent/child relationship between male ITJs and ENFPs chicks is getting sicker and sicker by the day. ENFP chicks are either naive or sick themselves to consistently fall for all this hidden condescendence.

  2. #82
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    If you want to save this relationship you NEED to swallow your pride. You have already let it get the best of you once, if you don't own it then I can't see this ending well.

    Right now you are demanding that she understand your type preference and just take you at face value because that's just how INTJs are; while that's true, you are not really giving her that same consideration and in fact are being pretty condescending about it, via these posts putting down her emotional/thought processing and indicating that she needs to get over it and to see and do things your way because it is the "right" way. As another poster mentioned earlier, being "right" isn't going to help you now. This approach WILL NOT work with an ENFP.

    You say that she knows you and that she should just know this is something you did in a moment of weakness, but you just did something that she may have never thought you were capable of doing, so coming from her perspective it may be difficult to just "know". Experiencing the darker side of someone can shake you up, so if someone you thought you knew acts very uncharacteristically and then says "just take my word for it, you know me" well........does she?

    Like other ENFPs have said, I am not her so I can only speculate, but if she has as good of a grasp on your MBTI type as you say she does she has likely spent a lot of the past 3 years trying to understand things in the scope of your type, possibly letting things that slightly annoyed or upset her slide because she knows your type and that you didn't mean it, which could lead to what you perceive as over-reacting..I prefer to call it over-feeling, and this is an approach I'm in the process of un-learning myself, but it is what it is.

    So for you to say something that so clearly upset her and then demand that she see where you're coming from and expect her to get over it is really unfair. An ENFP is usually making compromises for others in order to work things out. And here you are demanding that she do more to understand you when she herself is really hurt and you don't look like you're doing a whole lot to do the same in return. You say you've done "everything you can", but have you? Really? I would really critically examine that. Use that Ti!

    You posted here, so to me that's a good indicator that you are trying to understand and that you really do love her, but to me the way you react to posts that criticize your role in this problem indicates that you are still letting your pride get in your way.

    Stop it.

    Read Satine's posts over and over again until you understand. Use MBTI to help understand each others thought processes as equally valid as the other (note: valid, does not equal "correct"). Where you are weak, she may be strong, and vice versa. Use that. READ SATINE'S POSTS OVER AND OVER. Find out exactly what it is, if anything, you can do to make this right even if it means giving her space. Keep in mind that there might not be anything you can do and accept that if the time comes. Quit building walls with your pride and she might quit building walls with her emotions.

    Edit: I should probably make it clear that I'm with an INTJ myself..we recently had some problems, somewhat similar to yours. Trust me when I say that Satine knows what she's talking about, from both perspectives. There's more than one side to each story, if you listen.
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  3. #83
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your continued support, even though I have been coming off as an ass in some of my posts. I'm sorry. I'm normally not one, but I guess I have been getting defensive and letting my pride get in the way as everyone has been saying. The thing is, I was not aware (and I'm still not exactly sure how) that I am building a wall out of my pride. But I'll take your word for it and try to figure it out. Maybe she's not aware that she's building a wall out of her emotions? If so, I have been taking the wrong approach because if she's doesn't understand her feelings right now then why am was I trying to push her to explain them to me. And I guess the condescending part applies as well. I'm actually ridiculously open-minded (my J and P are very close to equal) to others, but especially my loved ones. I just need to put this pride aside and remind her of that I have always valued her opinions, thoughts, and emotions, and promise her that I haven't lost sight of that.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    This parent/child relationship between male ITJs and ENFPs chicks is getting sicker and sicker by the day. ENFP chicks are either naive or sick themselves to consistently fall for all this hidden condescendence.
    I don't know if it's only ITJs.

    And I wonder if being submissive in a relationship is type related. Being a submissive isn't necessarily "sick."

    You also want to take into account that he's probably mad/upset with her right now, which is why his tone may be less than pleasant.

  5. #85
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah...as i just said in another thread....it is much easier to change a good first impression than a bad....and it applies a bit in this way...like disillusionment...that rose colored shades view we tend to have...naturally thinking the best of people and then a thought or statement is expressed and i think...whoa...hang on...this doesn't fit into my picture of you at all. let me reevaulate everything i know and create a new model for you so that i may understand...then decide if i like this new way i see you...it's not the same as...hmm odd behavior...must not mean anything in the context of his previous behaviors i'll discard it...no...it says...oh...okay wrong...re-asses.


    that was jumbled. i'm sorry... too tired to be eloquent.
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    -Jim Morrison

  6. #86
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Eagle..you're INTJ. You're awesome and you can do anything
    That includes this and all it entails.

    Have patience, she's still sorting things out, (kinda like being swallowed by a wave). I know this isn't easy, but it *is* worth it, I promise. Take care of yourself
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  7. #87
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Keep in mind I can only speculate based on my own experience. When I mean "building walls", I mean in terms of "protection" from emotional vulnerability and keeping ourselves isolated by being emotionally unavailable to others. For me at least, when I'm building walls I just build. I don't think too much, I just keep building . But I do it in a much different way than my partner does. Just remember that we are always learning, and sometimes we don't see things that are there (or see things that aren't there!) when we are not at our best.

    I'm gonna link you to Satine's post in the thread I created about my INTJ-NFP problems. I think it might benefit you to see what kind of information was valuable to an NFP regardless of how similar or dissimilar our situations may have been.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I don't know if it's only ITJs.

    And I wonder if being submissive in a relationship is type related. Being a submissive isn't necessarily "sick."
    Same...I actually found Stypgs post interesting because in my relationships with ITJs, I'm usually the dominant one. I've had relationships where I was not; overall neither was better than the other, provided that balance and mutual respect were otherwise an element of the relationship. Submissive doesn't necessarily mean "subordinate", imo
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  8. #88
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    also...just another thought as a very f person...i can know something logically. i can know someone loves me based on actions...logically i can taste it but it doesn't satiate or fill that emotional need.

    if that makes sense.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #89
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Crap, I need to stop repeating myself!
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    also...just another thought as a very f person...i can know something logically. i can know someone loves me based on actions...logically i can taste it but it doesn't satiate or fill that emotional need.

    if that makes sense.
    Yeah I can know something logically, yet still respond emotionally in a way which is not aligned with the logic. I know what you mean.

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