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  1. #271
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    In fecaleagle's case you can argue that she had been consistent for 3 years...then what?

    FYI: I am not challenging you...I am simply rationalizing things in my head. The goal is understanding here for me.

    EDIT: Was thinking...Nothing is ever guranteed in relationships...my rationalizing is a moot point.
    I haven't read what she happened after those 3 years apart from the initial post (and if that is the inconsistency you are talking about I'll tell you she IS being consistent, he was the one being inconsistent). That' beside the point though.

    There is a whole slew of attributes you are associating with ENFPs because you met a couple of guys that from your description are just weird versions of ENFPs that don't even make a whole lot of sense to a lot of the rest of us.

    So weird in fact they sound like another type altogether.

  2. #272
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    There is a whole slew of attributes you are associating with ENFPs because you met a couple of guys that from your description are just weird versions of ENFPs that don't even make a whole lot of sense to a lot of the rest of us.

    So weird in fact they sound like another type altogether.
    Im not the only one recognizing these ENFP patterns in the thread.

    I think putting down my feelings and experiences serves SOME purpose, biased though they may be. Perhaps it will be enlightening for an ENFP that does recognize some of those behaviors.

    I am glad you do not relate to them.

  3. #273
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    Well, there's also a pattern in other places of INTJs being distant and emotionally unavailable, so naturally there are flaws in every type if we want to get down to it.

    At the same time, I really see an issue with ENFPs wanting to accept that ENFPs have flaws...none of us are perfect, guys.

  4. #274
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    I'm pretty close to perfect.

  5. #275
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Im not the only one recognizing these ENFP patterns in the thread.
    What patterns are you talking about? Be specific? That we are not honest? That would be the most preposterous claim ever. And finding someone that agrees with you doesn't mean that ENFP traits inherently produce said "patterns".

    Once you get into your head the guy you described on so many posts is not and ENFP, but just some guy....you'll be better at pragmatically using MBTI to your advantage. For better understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    I think putting down my feelings and experiences serves SOME purpose, biased though they may be. Perhaps it will be enlightening for an ENFP that does recognize some of those behaviors.

    I am glad you do not relate to them.
    I am them. Or at least I am part of them. That's what the test said.

  6. #276
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Well, there's also a pattern in other places of INTJs being distant and emotionally unavailable, so naturally there are flaws in every type if we want to get down to it.

    At the same time, I really see an issue with ENFPs wanting to accept that ENFPs have flaws...none of us are perfect, guys.
    oh!! this is the response that got lost when the site crashed for me. i forgot.

    anyway...i think enfps are just at times annoyingly defensive...not just in our own defense but for whatever side we think needs representation...the perspective not being shown.

    but...i know quite a few enfps really well and we are very aware of our faults...even on here you can see us whining omfg i'm soooo screwed up!! wahhh!! i know...i'm painfully aware on a daily basis...so...that defensiveness might actually be different than what it appears.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #277
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Liesl...I understand there can be GOOD intentions behind white lies. However, when the intentions are selfish and a means to protect one's reputation or to save face...which has been MOST of the time in IME with ENFPs and which is the case for fecaleagle here, then there is no excuse. You HURT people with your omissions.

    It has nothing to do with depriving ourselves of the real truth or convincing ourselves that it's the other party's fault. I'm pretty self-aware of my faults and am quick to acknowledge them in a confrontation. This is where the INTJ honesty comes in.

    Im not talking about BLUNTNESS as truth....I am talking about the SIMPLE TRUTH. And I am not saying INTJs can't be liars, however, for the most part, you will find that we dislike beating around the bush and embellishing things. We rather have the ugly truth told to us AND say it too.
    I'm not talking about situations involving blatant dishonesty, like the case that this thread revolves around. But that has very little to do with type and has everything to with an individual behaving in a kind of socially irresponsible way, something that happens with every type, including INTJs.

    The idea that ENFPs are somehow more prone to lying than INTJs is not a solid claim. First of all, I interact with INTJs all the time that have no ability to admit their own faults or see anything from any perspective out of their own. 'Honesty' to them seems to be something that they have defined based on some primitive criteria that don't hold up for a second in the real world. But basically, to them, if it's not lying based on THEIR criteria (which are often faulty), then it's not lying. So, I don't know what you're referring to when you say 'INTJ honesty.' I feel like they're dishonest all the time, even though they'll go to the grave saying they're 'honest.'

    Maybe the numerous INTJs I've dealt with are not reflective of the type at large. But I think it's more likely that if you do have the qualities you've stated you have, you're an anomaly within the type, a more evolved INTJ.
    Last edited by Liesl; 07-03-2010 at 02:33 PM.

  8. #278
    Senior Member Ratsimoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post


    I basically make my wife deal with it when I can tell something is wrong. (I know that sounds bad :p) And sometimes it even makes me cry, depending on what it is. She once in a while says she doesn't like telling me things because they upset me, but I think she has realized that it is good for me (and us) to just take it and process it and get it dealt with.

    If something is "wrong" I will know it even if I don't know specifically what it is. There is really no point in trying to ignore it.
    True. Sometimes I got tired of trying to ignore the elephant in the room.
    [SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]

    Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
    — Sylvia Plath (The Bell Jar)

    "Remember, remember, this is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted."
    — Sylvia Plath

  9. #279
    Senior Member Ratsimoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Is that sarcasm? I cant tell online. :S I didnt jump in the thread to begin with because I'd sound like an ENFP hater again, especially because of my bad recent experience and all my other ENFP threads. Also because I have a stupid fear of being wrong so I wont say something until I'm 100% sure or it's already confirmed.

    ANYWAY, I just wanted to believe this situation was going to turn out differently...I really did.....I don't believe I have all the answers. I recognize that a lot of what I say in this thread is emotional and I hope most can pick up on it.

    I dont hate ENFPs...I fucking love you guys...and that's what scares the shit out of me. ENFPs live in a world of possibilities where nothing is decided or definite...How can an INTJ possibly be sure they're not just another possibility for the ENFP?? ....How do you know they just wont get tired of the relationship and bail out for supposed 'greener pastures'...It's like we're the ones constantly in the danger zone with ENFPs....
    The whole "greener pastures" is driving me crazy. :crazy: I think like all types enfps look for a relationships that "fit"-fit for them and the person they are with. Unfortunately, immature/unhealthy enfps goes about finding that "fit" in a way where people get hurt. I really think enfps have to grow to discover that "fit."
    The "greener pastures" is unhealthy traits of enfps, so is staying in unhealthy relationships.
    [SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]

    Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
    — Sylvia Plath (The Bell Jar)

    "Remember, remember, this is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted."
    — Sylvia Plath

  10. #280
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Let me clarify something...I have not claimed that dishonesty is inherently an ENFP trait. It would be STUPID of me to say that about any type.

    However, last time I checked, this type is known for their "gift of gab" which can be used for good as well as evil. And I have observed it first-hand in ENFPs. They can usually talk their way in and out of everything. I dont think the same can be said about ANY type. Especially not most INTJs. (I AM NOT CLAIMING WE ARE BETTER OR PERFECT BY ANY MEANS...we have weaknesses in plenty of other areas)

    I am talking about the bigger picture anyway...how all of these small traits have been a pattern I'VE personally recognized in some of the ENFPs that I'VE known.

    If you're an ENFP and DONT relate to the negative qualities I've mentioned in this thread, then GOOD FOR YOU.

    No need to take any of what I've said about ENFPs personal. These are MY experiences and observations. If they don't apply to you, then don't worry about it. I realize you are not all like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Well, there's also a pattern in other places of INTJs being distant and emotionally unavailable, so naturally there are flaws in every type if we want to get down to it.

    At the same time, I really see an issue with ENFPs wanting to accept that ENFPs have flaws...none of us are perfect, guys.
    +1

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