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  1. #241
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    I am now like 80% sure she blew all of this out of proportion and it was all just a game and excuse to be with other guys for a while. The Ni is piecing it all together. I hope I'm wrong
    Do you have (multiple) solid evidence to back up (what seems to be) your assumption? If not, be careful of that Ni. Ni gone awry gets pretty ugly, from what I've seen. It can jump to false conclusions in a heartbeat.

    Isn't that precisely one of the issues you have with your girlfriend right now? Jumping to conclusions? Don't lose your head now.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Congrats on blaming others for you own emotionality. Paranoia is such a wonderful thing when fueled by negative feelings, isnt it?
    Ooh, that was a lil' harsh. But you bring up a very, very good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Hmmm... but you say that as if it were a true thing.





    And now back to the regularly scheduled T-baiting.
    Oh, Kalach...

    Beat me to it!
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  2. #242
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    I naturally wish I could magically fix things like this. I feel sincerely sorry I can't. For what its worth, I don't get any pleasure from your pain. I see failed relationships as failure. Failure is hard to accept.

  3. #243
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Do you have (multiple) solid evidence to back up (what seems to be) your assumption? If not, be careful of that Ni. Ni gone awry gets pretty ugly, from what I've seen. It can jump to false conclusions in a heartbeat.

    Isn't that precisely one of the issues you have with your girlfriend right now? Jumping to conclusions? Don't lose your head now.
    Oh yes. Ni can be a brooding, suspicious, and paranoid little booger. Just give it sometime before you start reaching conclusions re: ill intent, fecaleagle.

  4. #244
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    I'm sorry to say that my intuition was in fact true I've never been so proud to be Ni dominant yet so hurt by it PM me for all the details
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #245
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Exclamation Warning: Emotional Rant Ahead

    Another ENFP leaves YET ANOTHER INTJ in the dust...

    From personal experience, an INTJ's intuition is RARELY off about these things.

    From the beginning of this thread I KNEW and completely SENSED that the argument was just a scapegoat for her. Just a way out of the relationship without confronting.

    ENFPs will always try to get out the easy way. I had this ENFP tell me he had NEVER been the one to end any of his relationships...claiming that it wasnt easy. The ENFP is usually already DONE with a relationship mentally/emotionally long before the relationship actually ends. I cant say this about all ENFPs, but it's what I've learned from my experience.

    They are also very good at OMITTING details and claiming it as truth. White lies, bullshit...they're experts at this...which is such an irony, because INTJs are so horrible at this. We're honest to a fault...at least I am...I know no other way to live. I can't manipulate the truth or embellish it. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

    Reading your PM about her facebook account made me so angry. And what made me angrier was her response when you confronted her..Reminded me of MY confrontation with the ENFP....It's like I could never win...they find a way to bullshit through it all and make themselves seem like the good guy.

    My faith in ENFPs commitment to relationships is dwindling down the drain....Unfortunately, they're the type I'm consistently drawn to and really do bring out the best in me....when they're not lying and toying with others feelings.

    If this is her way of checking out if the grass is really greener on the other side and then coming back to you once she realizes it's not...I hope you have enough pride and dignity to move the hell on. Dont you even THINK about letting her back into your life.
    /END EMOTIONAL RANT

    DISCLAIMER: I realize not ALL ENFPs are like this. However, there seems to be a repeating pattern with many (perhaps the immature ones)...repetitive enough for me to believe a lot of it IS type related.

  6. #246
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Another ENFP leaves YET ANOTHER INTJ in the dust...

    From personal experience, an INTJ's intuition is RARELY off about these things.

    From the beginning of this thread I KNEW and completely SENSED that the argument was just a scapegoat for her. Just a way out of the relationship without confronting.

    ENFPs will always try to get out the easy way. I had this ENFP tell me he had NEVER been the one to end any of his relationships...claiming that it wasnt easy. The ENFP is usually already DONE with a relationship mentally/emotionally long before the relationship actually ends. I cant say this about all ENFPs, but it's what I've learned from my experience.

    They are also very good at OMITTING details and claiming it as truth. White lies, bullshit...they're experts at this...which is such an irony, because INTJs are so horrible at this. We're honest to a fault...at least I am...I know no other way to live. I can't manipulate the truth or embellish it. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

    Reading your PM about her facebook account made me so angry. And what made me angrier was her response when you confronted her..Reminded me of MY confrontation with the ENFP....It's like I could never win...they find a way to bullshit through it all and make themselves seem like the good guy.

    My faith in ENFPs commitment to relationships is dwindling down the drain....Unfortunately, they're the type I'm consistently drawn to and really do bring out the best in me....when they're not lying and toying with others feelings.

    If this is her way of checking out if the grass is really greener on the other side and then coming back to you once she realizes it's not...I hope you have enough pride and dignity to move the hell on. Dont you even THINK about letting her back into your life.
    /END EMOTIONAL RANT

    DISCLAIMER: I realize not ALL ENFPs are like this. However, there seems to be a repeating pattern with many (perhaps the immature ones)...repetitive enough for me to believe a lot of it IS type related.
    If she had ever sat down and addressed a single issue in our relationship, then I would still have an ounce of respect for her. But nope, not ever. Everything she brought up from the past was her misapplying judgment based on limited info because she never pressed any issues. How can you start falling out of love with someone and not give them any hint or want to address the issue? Cowardice, that's how. Or, more likely, the issues (since they are so ridiculous) are just after-the-fact rationalizations, and the driving force behind all of this was the need to see if the grass is greener on the other side. When you are that upset about something, you don't shower me with affection and tell me how I'm the best bf and how I'm doing everything right.

    The funny thing is, I actually believed her excuses about her desire to cheat being just a fantasy and that she couldn't do it if it came down to it! I even told her I was still willing to give it a shot since she hasn't done anything, guess she didn't expect that! Haha I've met some cowards in the past, but this girl really takes the cake. She's heading down a dark path, and no amount of sluttyness will prevent that future anguish, once she realizes how my explanations to her "issues" were correct and how lucky she was to have me in her life. And she still has the nerve to call me "one of her best friends", LOL. Sorry, you don't meet my standard of human decency. Thanks for all the support and affirmation via PM guys Can't believe I tried to doubt my Ni. Sometimes I forget what a genius I am
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #247
    Member Cheshire Grin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    The other night she said she was feeling sad...And I said I'm so sorry that I've done this to you, is there ANYTHING I can do to fix it or make you feel better?
    Seeing you write this, and reading through the last few pages of this thread...I've really got to give it to you: you tried. Obviously she isn't worthy of all that effort you put in, consider it a (hard) lesson learnt. I don't think you were paranoid, overreacting, or out of line. Seriously, if I was trying so hard to patch things up and kept getting petty excuses thrown at my face, my foul-play alarm would be going off as well. I really hope you don't plan on being her safety-net and that if she comes back to you saying she's sorry...that you don't fall for it.

    What kind of scares me a bit about this situation is that you were so convinced that you guys belonged together and she had such a special place in your heart almost right up to the last minute. Somtimes we simply don't spot the warning signs.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    The ENFP is usually already DONE with a relationship mentally/emotionally long before the relationship actually ends.

    I can't manipulate the truth or embellish it. IT IS WHAT IT IS.
    Your post reminded me of a girl I know who I suspect is an ENFP. Her boyfriend is one of my friends and oh boy, did he have his own issues as well, but she strung him along like a kid pulling on a fallen kite. They had a 6-year relationship and he wasn't happy in it but she used blackmail tactics like threatening to commit suicide or hurt herself whenever he wanted to leave. She then fell in love with another guy and once she was sure that this other guy wanted her back, she pushed her old boyfriend away by coming up with stupid excuses and made him so frustrated that he broke up with her. Of course, 4 days later, she ends up with this new guy. Heh.

    Also, I love that last sentence of your post that I quoted. I appreciate honesty and I appreciate people who are like that
    The question isn’t who is going to let me; it’s who is going to stop me. --A. Rand

  8. #248
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    From personal experience, an INTJ's intuition is RARELY off about these things.
    Nor is an ENFPs. I think that INTJs and ENFPs have differing blind spots in their intuition, though. Ne and Ni are amazingly accurate. But when they f*ck up, they tend to f*ck up big time.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    The ENFP is usually already DONE with a relationship mentally/emotionally long before the relationship actually ends.
    Yes. This is true. But not because we want to hurt anyone or be dishonest, but because we can't bear the thought of hurting anyone or that our previous declarations of eternal love didn't turn out to be completely true. It's like it's super hard to give up our vision and to admit failure. Because that's how it feels for an ENFP who reaches the end of a relationship they've committed to.

    Remember how different P and J are. I feel no compelling need to make decisions. I can let things hang in limbo far beyond the capacity of most INTJs. And, sometimes I have used this as a crutch for not facing things I don't want to face because they're painful, etc. I think back to my past relationships. And, usually there is a moment that I know in my heart that some line has been crossed. But I'm so horrified by the failure, the hurt, and that I'm even considering bailing on the relationship, that I try to convince myself that I'm wrong. There must be another option to fix things that I hadn't considered. I lie to myself. And, then I pass on that lie to others.

    I've gotten wayyyyyy better about not doing this, but it's taken a lot of practice and a lot of pain to learn to call myself on my own bullsh*t.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    They are also very good at OMITTING details and claiming it as truth. White lies, bullshit...We're honest to a fault...at least I am...I know no other way to live. I can't manipulate the truth or embellish it. IT IS WHAT IT IS.
    Welllllll..... I understand why you say this. And yes, an immature/unhealthy ENFP can be extremely manipulative and extremely good at it. However, most of us won't do that because it goes against our value system.

    I think what may rub an INTJ the wrong way about an ENFP is that "putting spin" on something is antithetical to the INTJ experience. And for the INTJ who has no natural ability in this area, it smacks of dishonesty.

    Is this dishonest? Well it's a gray area and it depends on how much spin is applied. I can tell you from my own struggles in this area, that it took me some life experience to realize that it was important for me to stop and reflect to make sure that I didn't omit pertinent facts. I realized (after some painful life experiences) that just because I didn't give a damn about all the details and just because I knew the entire story and was making an earnest effort to tell only pertinent details to be more efficient, that other people might interpret this as me lying or at least as acting in bad faith.

    Finally, let me point out that just because INTJs believe they are "telling it like it is" doesn't mean that their stories are always 100%. I think INTJs have the flip side of the same problem ENFPs suffer. An INTJ may feel like they are sharing the complete fact pattern. And, I do believe they always try to share all the facts as they see them. However, INTJs have a habit of dismissing out of hand facts that do not match up with their preconceived notions on things. Thus, all the facts as the INTJ sees it, is sometimes a skewing of the truth because what the INTJ sees as irrelevant information has already been cast aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    My faith in ENFPs commitment to relationships is dwindling down the drain....
    Sounds like you're in danger of taking a single incident and making a rule. Don't do that.

    Forget that I'm an ENFP. The ENFPs I've known have by and large been some of the most kind, friendly, fun, and lively people I've ever known. And, I can't think of a single one in my acquaintance that doesn't have what I would regard as a mature/highly-evolved ethical system.

    Young/immature/unhealthy ENFPs struggle with all the same issues all young/immature/unhealthy people struggle with. Basically, these ENFPs are idiots. But then again, who isn't an idiot when they're first starting out in life.

    I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior. Sounds like fecaleagle's ex-girlfriend was making some dumb choices. But it's probably more complicated than a simple pat answer like ENFPs aren't committed to serious relationships. For example, she may have felt different ways in different situations.

    All ENFPs have chameleon like qualities. We can instantly and non-consciously tailor our approach to the people around us. What we sacrifice in consistency we (hopefully) make up for with our ability to adapt to a wide variety of people. So it's possible that his gf truly meant what she said about missing fecaleagle and about being excited about meeting other guys.

    What I would say to his girlfriend is that she has an ethical obligation to think through how such inconsistencies in her feelings will affect the people around her. Most ENFPs I know do this... but usually only after screwing up so badly from not doing this... that they firmly resolve never to make such a short-sited error in judgment again.

  9. #249
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Another ENFP leaves YET ANOTHER INTJ in the dust...

    From personal experience, an INTJ's intuition is RARELY off about these things.

    From the beginning of this thread I KNEW and completely SENSED that the argument was just a scapegoat for her. Just a way out of the relationship without confronting.

    ENFPs will always try to get out the easy way. I had this ENFP tell me he had NEVER been the one to end any of his relationships...claiming that it wasnt easy. The ENFP is usually already DONE with a relationship mentally/emotionally long before the relationship actually ends. I cant say this about all ENFPs, but it's what I've learned from my experience.

    They are also very good at OMITTING details and claiming it as truth. White lies, bullshit...they're experts at this...which is such an irony, because INTJs are so horrible at this. We're honest to a fault...at least I am...I know no other way to live. I can't manipulate the truth or embellish it. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

    Reading your PM about her facebook account made me so angry. And what made me angrier was her response when you confronted her..Reminded me of MY confrontation with the ENFP....It's like I could never win...they find a way to bullshit through it all and make themselves seem like the good guy.

    My faith in ENFPs commitment to relationships is dwindling down the drain....Unfortunately, they're the type I'm consistently drawn to and really do bring out the best in me....when they're not lying and toying with others feelings.

    If this is her way of checking out if the grass is really greener on the other side and then coming back to you once she realizes it's not...I hope you have enough pride and dignity to move the hell on. Dont you even THINK about letting her back into your life.
    /END EMOTIONAL RANT

    DISCLAIMER: I realize not ALL ENFPs are like this. However, there seems to be a repeating pattern with many (perhaps the immature ones)...repetitive enough for me to believe a lot of it IS type related.
    You just PERFECTLY described my own experience with an ENFP friend (yes, a friend, not romantic partner) of mine. I also agree with everything else you said, except for this:

    Unfortunately, [ENFP's are] the type I'm consistently drawn to and really do bring out the best in me....
    I am not consistently drawn to ENFP's, at least not any more so than I am drawn to other types.

    Politically correct disclaimer: I do not think that thescientist's post applies to all ENFP's.
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  10. #250
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    It seems like thescientist could have saved us all a lot of time and energy...

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