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  1. #171
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    How serious are you about salvaging this relationship? Are you 100% committed to an attempt?

    If so I need more data in order to assist you. The more time passes here, the probability of success diminishes.

    1 - your ages please
    2 - exact timeline of events, summarized
    3 - event that occurred 8 months previous
    4 - exactly what you have done so far in an effort to rebuild your bond

    I won't pretend you have great chances at this point, but I do have some insights to share, so reply to the above if you are willing to go there.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #172
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input everyone..having a hard time deciding what is right. For the record, she said she's not interested in "actively dating anyone" right now, just hanging out and talking I guess..Without communication, it's hard for me to try to understand what's going on. I mean she is worth my time, but I'm just struggling to understand this extreme of a reaction...especially given the last few posts from ENFPs who seem to be confused by her actions as well..I guess I'll have to keep analyzing things a bit more

  3. #173
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    that would be nice.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #174
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    ^ If she said that, then it's time to wear out the soles of your shoes. Please trust me on this. It's time to be confident and to let go of *you* a little bit. Sounds like enough time has gone by and you've given her enough space. It's time to take meaningful action. If you love her and if you know in your heart that she loves you, then don't give up the chase. Here's your next move...

    Send her at least a dozen of these with a card that simply says, "I love you."
    http://www.ftd.com/the-ftd-long-stem-pink-rose-bouquet-prd/n14-4304/


    Edit: Send the roses in her favorite color, if possible. If her favorite color is blue or something like that, then send her red roses. That's my girly INFP opinion. :redface:
    I was under the impression that I should wait until she feels like she's had enough alone time to sort through her feelings, then wait for her to come to me...I've already written an extremely emotional and heartfelt letter (the process was hard for me to do) which she said she was touched by...it seems like sending her roses and trying to prove my love at this point is just silly, and would be putting unnecessary pressure on her. I guess the waiting around part is just foreign to me, since I can sort through my thoughts and feelings quickly...guess I should be a bit more patient

  5. #175
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    I was under the impression that I should wait until she feels like she's had enough alone time to sort through her feelings, then wait for her to come to me...I've already written an extremely emotional and heartfelt letter (the process was hard for me to do) which she said she was touched by...it seems like sending her roses and trying to prove my love at this point is just silly, and would be putting unnecessary pressure on her. I guess the waiting around part is just foreign to me, since I can sort through my thoughts and feelings quickly...guess I should be a bit more patient
    Waiting is like playing Roulette in Relationships.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  6. #176
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    EDIT: I think xNFP women can be emotionally weak at times (in conflict & under stress) and really need a strong man.
    Maybe that's why some of them jump from relationship to relationship and have trouble being single for long.

    How about learning to become emotionally strong on your own though? This idea that people have to find someone that compliments their faults is imo why so many relationships fail these days. Learn self-awareness and self-improvement and to not become dependent on other people. Our emotions shouldn't all be a burden on other people and dependency is the killer of long term loving relationships. Love yourself to be able to love others. Being affectionate and loving are not the same thing.

  7. #177
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    fecaleagle, I don't think you should discount the powerful differences between P and J here.

    As an ENFP, I like to leave my options open as long as possible. I have to force myself sometimes to make a decision. And, if I err, it is on the side of taking too long to decide.

    I do not think it untoward for you to go see her (in spite of her request) and ask her if she will give you five minutes of her time. You might remind her that as hard as it is for her to sometimes decide her next step, it is equally difficult on you to have things hanging open.

    You might want to tell her that while you've been willing to respect her wishes about needing space, that she needs to be aware of how hard and stressful it is to you to have matters up in the air and undecided. You might explain to her that expediency is pressing and you hope she will make every effort to decide soon because if she waits too long, it will cause you long term harm. Remind her that you are not trying to force her to give you an answer per se, but to gently remind her that you, being a J, have very different needs in this area and that you've worked very, very hard to accommodate her in an area where her needs are different than yours and that she can help you better accommodate her needs if she keeps in mind your J needs while she decides what to do.

    If you do this, be very careful to inoculate yourself against charges of forcing her into a corner. Even if she's going to opt out of the relationship, as an ENFP, she will not be able to bear the thought of hurting someone else and even if she doesn't say anything at the time, this will really cause her to examine her own actions to see if she is being fair to you. (Or at least it would me.)

    I hear your suffering. I also know what it's like to need space and to feel independent. I'm fiercely independent and loathe anyone trying to control me. But I also try to be considerate of people and am constantly checking my own behavior to make sure I'm taking their needs into account.

    In other words, fecaleagle, you need to not let yourself get drug down too much by this whole thing, even in sacrifice of your sincere quest to make things right with this girl. If you don't set some boundaries for yourself:

    #1 - You will have a lot of pent up resentment even if you two get back together.
    #2 - You will take an emotional hit for this (if you let it go too far) that will color every aspect of your life.

    So be a good guy and considerate of her feelings, but take care of your most basic INTJ needs first. Like they say on the airplanes "Put on the Oxygen mask first." Note, the last word: “first.” Put the mask on yourself first...before you assist others. You’re no good to your girlfriend if you don’t take care of yourself.

  8. #178
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    OMG my head hurts. perfectgirl, what you are describing really just doesn't sound like my girlfriend at all. It sounds like the kind of relationship I have spent my life trying to avoid. Not a fan of silly ass games like that. I mean, are you kidding me? You either love and appreciate me for me or you don't. Mind reading was NOT listed as one of my skills on my dating resume. It really sounds like she wants space, but then again I feel pretty clueless at this point

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    fecaleagle, I don't think you should discount the powerful differences between P and J here.

    As an ENFP, I like to leave my options open as long as possible. I have to force myself sometimes to make a decision. And, if I err, it is on the side of taking too long to decide.

    I do not think it untoward for you to go see her (in spite of her request) and ask her if she will give you five minutes of her time. You might remind her that as hard as it is for her to sometimes decide her next step, it is equally difficult on you to have things hanging open.

    You might want to tell her that while you've been willing to respect her wishes about needing space, that she needs to be aware of how hard and stressful it is to you to have matters up in the air and undecided. You might explain to her that expediency is pressing and you hope she will make every effort to decide soon because if she waits too long, it will cause you long term harm. Remind her that you are not trying to force her to give you an answer per se, but to gently remind her that you, being a J, have very different needs in this area and that you've worked very, very hard to accommodate her in an area where her needs are different than yours and that she can help you better accommodate her needs if she keeps in mind your J needs while she decides what to do.

    If you do this, be very careful to inoculate yourself against charges of forcing her into a corner. Even if she's going to opt out of the relationship, as an ENFP, she will not be able to bear the thought of hurting someone else and even if she doesn't say anything at the time, this will really cause her to examine her own actions to see if she is being fair to you. (Or at least it would me.)

    I hear your suffering. I also know what it's like to need space and to feel independent. I'm fiercely independent and loathe anyone trying to control me. But I also try to be considerate of people and am constantly checking my own behavior to make sure I'm taking their needs into account.

    In other words, fecaleagle, you need to not let yourself get drug down too much by this whole thing, even in sacrifice of your sincere quest to make things right with this girl. If you don't set some boundaries for yourself:

    #1 - You will have a lot of pent up resentment even if you two get back together.
    #2 - You will take an emotional hit for this (if you let it go too far) that will color every aspect of your life.

    So be a good guy and considerate of her feelings, but take care of your most basic INTJ needs first. Like they say on the airplanes "Put on the Oxygen mask first." Note, the last word: “first.” Put the mask on yourself first...before you assist others. You’re no good to your girlfriend if you don’t take care of yourself.
    This sounds spot on to me. I called her for the first time in a long time last night despite her request to cut communication off..she seemed like she misses me and was happy that I called, but I seriously can not tell if she wants me in her life or not. I am 100% certain that it would be immediately obvious to you ENFPs, but this is my Achilles heel.

    She is the ultimate P so I do have to keep that in mind. I can make a life-altering decision 100x faster than she could decide where she wants to go to dinner And I'm a pretty weak J.

    The thing you are absolutely right about which I don't think she realizes is how time is really, really working against us right now. The thing I told her from the get go and have been afraid of is the whole resentment thing. I'm not sure exactly how it is happening, but I can feel it heading my way. Like, sooner that she could ever imagine, I will be hit with a wave of increasing resentment and re-evaluation of everything, since I have done all that I can to make things right and cater to her needs. And now I have to wait..that is NOT something an INTJ can do for long. So far this entire thing has been done the ENFP way, ya gotta give me something! Ever since I sent her the letter, I feel much better and free, and have been taking care of myself and enjoying my hobbies, although not fully. Originally I said I could wait 2 more weeks, but I'm doubting my ability to do so. I am afraid my feelings towards her are changing or will change soon and that we will be unable to have a future together. All because of her indecisiveness. I KNOW she will come around, but she is running out of time, and I don't know how to express that to her without making it seem like I'm trying to force a decision or put pressure on her. I mean, the 4th of July is coming up, and we've been spending it together since we've been dating. I am afraid that when that day comes and she's not by my side, I will go into INTJ cold mode and just walk away only with self-interest in mind. I made a stupid mistake. I apologized from the heart. I poured all of my emotions out about everything. I've been patient and understanding. I've been trying to improve myself via this forum and have told her that I want her to help me grow. I've been an awesome boyfriend over the years. I realize that I hurt her, but at this point I really feel like she needs to take some responsibility and fight for our relationship. To dwell on one's one pain for so long with no regard for your partner's can really just destroy even the most perfect thing. I truly though we were a team, and now I don't feel that we are anymore. A small part of me feels like she is being vindictive and trying to teach me some sort of lesson. Again, hello resentment nice to meet you. There is this small part of me that has had enough, and is ready to say bye I can't keep pouring out my love with nothing in return

  9. #179
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Maybe that's why some of them jump from relationship to relationship and have trouble being single for long.

    How about learning to become emotionally strong on your own though? This idea that people have to find someone that compliments their faults is imo why so many relationships fail these days. Learn self-awareness and self-improvement and to not become dependent on other people. Our emotions shouldn't all be a burden on other people and dependency is the killer of long term loving relationships. Love yourself to be able to love others. Being affectionate and loving are not the same thing.
    i know what you're saying and agree to a point but i think a partnership becomes stronger when you can trust each other to catch you when you fall...if they can be strong during your moments of weaknesses and vice versa...like in dance...she can leap up into your arms and know you'll catch her...same thing with feeling safe to be vulnerable...opening yourself up...knowing they'll be there...that's what true intimacy is all about...we're all fallible...and knowing your partner loves and supports you through the weaker times is really important.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #180
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    OMG my head hurts. perfectgirl, what you are describing really just doesn't sound like my girlfriend at all. It sounds like the kind of relationship I have spent my life trying to avoid. Not a fan of silly ass games like that. I mean, are you kidding me? You either love and appreciate me for me or you don't. Mind reading was NOT listed as one of my skills on my dating resume. It really sounds like she wants space, but then again I feel pretty clueless at this point



    This sounds spot on to me. I called her for the first time in a long time last night despite her request to cut communication off..she seemed like she misses me and was happy that I called, but I seriously can not tell if she wants me in her life or not. I am 100% certain that it would be immediately obvious to you ENFPs, but this is my Achilles heel.

    She is the ultimate P so I do have to keep that in mind. I can make a life-altering decision 100x faster than she could decide where she wants to go to dinner And I'm a pretty weak J.

    The thing you are absolutely right about which I don't think she realizes is how time is really, really working against us right now. The thing I told her from the get go and have been afraid of is the whole resentment thing. I'm not sure exactly how it is happening, but I can feel it heading my way. Like, sooner that she could ever imagine, I will be hit with a wave of increasing resentment and re-evaluation of everything, since I have done all that I can to make things right and cater to her needs. And now I have to wait..that is NOT something an INTJ can do for long. So far this entire thing has been done the ENFP way, ya gotta give me something! Ever since I sent her the letter, I feel much better and free, and have been taking care of myself and enjoying my hobbies, although not fully. Originally I said I could wait 2 more weeks, but I'm doubting my ability to do so. I am afraid my feelings towards her are changing or will change soon and that we will be unable to have a future together. All because of her indecisiveness. I KNOW she will come around, but she is running out of time, and I don't know how to express that to her without making it seem like I'm trying to force a decision or put pressure on her. I mean, the 4th of July is coming up, and we've been spending it together since we've been dating. I am afraid that when that day comes and she's not by my side, I will go into INTJ cold mode and just walk away only with self-interest in mind. I made a stupid mistake. I apologized from the heart. I poured all of my emotions out about everything. I've been patient and understanding. I've been trying to improve myself via this forum and have told her that I want her to help me grow. I've been an awesome boyfriend over the years. I realize that I hurt her, but at this point I really feel like she needs to take some responsibility and fight for our relationship. To dwell on one's one pain for so long with no regard for your partner's can really just destroy even the most perfect thing. I truly though we were a team, and now I don't feel that we are anymore. A small part of me feels like she is being vindictive and trying to teach me some sort of lesson. Again, hello resentment nice to meet you. There is this small part of me that has had enough, and is ready to say bye I can't keep pouring out my love with nothing in return
    well damn...and you called her a fair weather friend...or fan...didn't you? or did i make that up...anyway...if you can turn it off like that. what does that tell you?

    not saying it's wrong...just honest...honesty is good. if you can turn it off what does that mean to you?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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