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  1. #131
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Let's ease up on him, people
    Agreed.

    fecaleagle (hahaha i just actually realized your user handle, gross), i think what is happening here is that there is a way that you are speaking that is very differently interpreted by us Feelers. anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong or misinterpreting your issue with the way he posts.

    you guys tend to value efficiency in your speaking. I've noticed that the INTJs i know tend to be very choosy with their words, often taking a lot of time to think through what they're thinking in order to articulate their own thought process in the most efficient way possible (Ti).

    Well, this can be very true for ENFPs too. we can spend a lot of time carefully choosing words, not so much to articulate what we are thinking, but what we are FEELING, and sometimes we invest a lot of energy trying to articulate these things in a way that is sensitive to the person we are talking to. I know that i've made a couple posts where i've had to re-write things because i thought "wow, maybe this was a little harsh, this guy is just trying to understand, i should try to soften this up a little bit".

    the reason i (and maybe others) see a lot of pride in your posts is because you are dealing with this issue on a very intellectual level from your intellectual perspective. which is cool, you have a lot to offer through that. it's very much needed in these kinds of situations. JUST NOT RIGHT NOW. if i were this ENFP, the way i would start to let my guard down again is if i saw that you were trying your best to deal with this issue on an emotional level and maybe then follow up by dealing with it intellectually. Try to put yourself in her shoes. Try and actually feel what you think she might be feeling based on the situation and her reactions. You are on step 2 and trying to move on, while she is still on step 1 and feeling pretty bad. That's why it might come off to a lot of us as "why won't she just move on and forgive me? can't she see MY good intentions?" because you're kinda coming from your perspective of being on step 2. if that makes any sense, lol.

    You have very good points, and there's always two sides to a story, but when someone is hurt it's harder to see their side. We already know why you did what you did (and she probably does too), so when you keep explaining yourself and your thought process like you are in your posts, it can come across as making excuses. The words you choose still indicate to me that you are approaching this from your intellectual perspective and, therefore, your perspective. I think if you try your best to get yourself into her emotional perspective as best you can, this will come out in your posts.

    i hope this makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Have you thought about showing her this thread? If my bf showed me the marathon efforts he was putting into working things out.... well let's just say that my heart would instantly melt... and somebody would probably be getting lucky. LOL!

    THIS THIS THIS THIS
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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    Thank you for the post, but it seems more appropriate to be a few pages back. I already have realized all of what you said thanks to all of the helpful posts. I have surrendered my pride. I have made myself vulnerable to her. I have told her from the bottom of my heart how I take full responsibility for what I did, and I meant it. I did not portray in my last few posts that my logic and thinking are superior to her feeling and emotions. Sure I was attempting to use logic, but only to understand where SHE is coming from. I'm trying to understand what is going on in her head, that is all. I'm not discrediting it at all, and I'm sorry you got this impression.
    Try to figure out what is going on in her heart, my guess is that its driving whats in her head.

    If she were to tell you whats going on in her head and its bad, how would you respond? How does she think you would respond? What is her flow chart of who you are telling her what you will do and how you will respond? This is a flow chart you created...this is an image of you...

    Just my 2 cents.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #133
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    Agreed.

    fecaleagle (hahaha i just actually realized your user handle, gross), i think what is happening here is that there is a way that you are speaking that is very differently interpreted by us Feelers. anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong or misinterpreting your issue with the way he posts.

    you guys tend to value efficiency in your speaking. I've noticed that the INTJs i know tend to be very choosy with their words, often taking a lot of time to think through what they're thinking in order to articulate their own thought process in the most efficient way possible (Ti).

    Well, this can be very true for ENFPs too. we can spend a lot of time carefully choosing words, not so much to articulate what we are thinking, but what we are FEELING, and sometimes we invest a lot of energy trying to articulate these things in a way that is sensitive to the person we are talking to. I know that i've made a couple posts where i've had to re-write things because i thought "wow, maybe this was a little harsh, this guy is just trying to understand, i should try to soften this up a little bit".

    the reason i (and maybe others) see a lot of pride in your posts is because you are dealing with this issue on a very intellectual level from your intellectual perspective. which is cool, you have a lot to offer through that. it's very much needed in these kinds of situations. JUST NOT RIGHT NOW. if i were this ENFP, the way i would start to let my guard down again is if i saw that you were trying your best to deal with this issue on an emotional level and maybe then follow up by dealing with it intellectually. Try to put yourself in her shoes. Try and actually feel what you think she might be feeling based on the situation and her reactions. You are on step 2 and trying to move on, while she is still on step 1 and feeling pretty bad. That's why it might come off to a lot of us as "why won't she just move on and forgive me? can't she see MY good intentions?" because you're kinda coming from your perspective of being on step 2. if that makes any sense, lol.

    You have very good points, and there's always two sides to a story, but when someone is hurt it's harder to see their side. We already know why you did what you did (and she probably does too), so when you keep explaining yourself and your thought process like you are in your posts, it can come across as making excuses. The words you choose still indicate to me that you are approaching this from your intellectual perspective and, therefore, your perspective. I think if you try your best to get yourself into her emotional perspective as best you can, this will come out in your posts.

    i hope this makes sense




    THIS THIS THIS THIS
    While I am appreciative of EVERYONE'S posts (except the idiot that said I was psycho and wrong earlier with no explanation), your past 2 posts have been phenomenal. I do feel like my posts and points are being hugely misinterpreted but couldn't figure out why, but you nailed it. Here is what I've done: I've approached her with the best emotional perspective that I could, and did my hardest to leave out my intellectual perspective because I AGREE THAT IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE. But I have no reason to take an emotional approach in this thread. It will gain me nothing. I have to use what I use best to try to pinpoint where I've gone wrong and what I can do to fix it, and try to LOGICALLY understand my relationship. It's hard to explain. All I can do here to improve my understanding of myself, my gf, and our relationship, is to use logic. I am trying to take a multifaceted approach, but you are only seeing half of it so it makes me seem arrogant, set on my ways, and irresponsible. Does that make sense?

    edit: I thought about showing her this thread, but it seems like it will just bombard her senses. I have written a very emotional and apologetic letter to her already leaving out logic, so I don't think it would add anything if she were to try to understand my intellectual struggle with it all

  4. #134
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    While I am appreciative of EVERYONE'S posts (except the idiot that said I was psycho and wrong earlier with no explanation), your past 2 posts have been phenomenal. I do feel like my posts and points are being hugely misinterpreted but couldn't figure out why, but you nailed it. Here is what I've done: I've approached her with the best emotional perspective that I could, and did my hardest to leave out my intellectual perspective because I AGREE THAT IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE. But I have no reason to take an emotional approach in this thread. It will gain me nothing. I have to use what I use best to try to pinpoint where I've gone wrong and what I can do to fix it, and try to LOGICALLY understand my relationship. It's hard to explain. All I can do here to improve my understanding of myself, my gf, and our relationship, is to use logic. I am trying to take a multifaceted approach, but you are only seeing half of it so it makes me seem arrogant, set on my ways, and irresponsible. Does that make sense?

    It does.

    What kind of progress has been made with your girlfriend since you started this thread? We like updates
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  5. #135
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    While I am appreciative of EVERYONE'S posts (except the idiot that said I was psycho and wrong earlier with no explanation), your past 2 posts have been phenomenal. I do feel like my posts and points are being hugely misinterpreted but couldn't figure out why, but you nailed it. Here is what I've done: I've approached her with the best emotional perspective that I could, and did my hardest to leave out my intellectual perspective because I AGREE THAT IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE. But I have no reason to take an emotional approach in this thread. It will gain me nothing. I have to use what I use best to try to pinpoint where I've gone wrong and what I can do to fix it, and try to LOGICALLY understand my relationship. It's hard to explain. All I can do here to improve my understanding of myself, my gf, and our relationship, is to use logic. I am trying to take a multifaceted approach, but you are only seeing half of it so it makes me seem arrogant, set on my ways, and irresponsible. Does that make sense?

    edit: I thought about showing her this thread, but it seems like it will just bombard her senses. I have written a very emotional and apologetic letter to her already leaving out logic, so I don't think it would add anything if she were to try to understand my intellectual struggle with it all
    Ah! Okay, that definitely makes sense.
    Something Witty

  6. #136
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    Hey everyone. So I've been dating an ENFP girl for 3 years, and our relationship has been as close to perfect as can be. ...

    [long post about deteriorating relationship]
    to the Op:

    The best technique is to use the talking stick

    1. One with the stick talks about one* issue/thought
    2. Listener listens, and rephrases the thought back to talker
    3. Talker clarifies until feels understood
    4. repeat 2-3 until it's completely understood
    5. Pass talking stick


    I suppose it's stupid, but no one would argue that it's ineffective.


    Also, check out Gottman's work on relationships and marriages. He can predict within 10 mins, with 90% accuracy if the relationship/marriage will fail. There are resources to his sound relationship house diagram and youtube lectures/talks.

    I won't post the links, because serendipity will be a good thing.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    Well, this can be very true for ENFPs too. we can spend a lot of time carefully choosing words, not so much to articulate what we are thinking, but what we are FEELING, and sometimes we invest a lot of energy trying to articulate these things in a way that is sensitive to the person we are talking to.
    This is 100% true for me. We've discussed it in another thread here, but it is sometimes overdone to the point that I project this onto my T wife. I expect her to be doing the same thing with her words but she doesn't. One word slightly off sends me on a goose-chase trying to get to the root of a problem with her feelings, a problem that sometimes just does not exist.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    Isn't that vindictiveness? She would be purposely trying to hurt me as an act of justice, which is very similar to what I did to cause this mess. I have finally set aside my pride and written her a thoughtful letter, so hopefully she sets aside hers, if what you say is true
    Yeah she might be vengeful. ENFPs can be vengeful. I can be vengeful. Don't let them lie to you and say that they're not. ...okay, seriously, some of them aren't but yeah....

    Someone has to be the bigger person here, seriously. That's the only way this will end.

  9. #139
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    edit: I thought about showing her this thread, but it seems like it will just bombard her senses. I have written a very emotional and apologetic letter to her already leaving out logic, so I don't think it would add anything if she were to try to understand my intellectual struggle with it all
    Well, I completely respect your call on this, fecaleagle. You know the nuance of your relationship.

    But for whatever it's worth, I suggest that your girlfriend would be most impressed if she could see the intellectual ordeal you've been willing to undergo for her and for your relationship.

    Seriously.

    I would be absolutely flaberghasted if my SO was willing to get hammered by a bunch of ENFPs (sorry if we were a little hard on you) to better understand where I was coming from. Even better, the idiot that said you were psycho and wrong earlier with no explanation, would actually work for you... ya know... 'cause you had to put up with nuts like that.

    LOL!

    I'm telling you... and you can blame it on me if she gets mad at you... if you show her this thread... Wow! Double Wow!

    Well, let's put it this way. If she dumps you, I want to take you out for a test drive.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Well, let's put it this way. If she dumps you, I want to take you out for a test drive.
    I am seeing a new long con PUA technique evolving that targets ENFP women.

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