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  1. #1
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    Default NF and NT Romantic Pairing

    I have a question for you other wonderful NFs. I've been in a couple of relationships with NT men, and they ended when I realized that I would never be as important to them in the long term as their careers. (I'm more comfortable on my own than in a relationship where I have to fight to prove my importance or value.) Both of these men seemed to think that their work was going to change the human race in such a drastic way that they should crush any human beings that get in their way. (Perhaps you can appreciate the irony. Alas, they could not.)

    I was wondering if any of you have had similar experiences or have felt like someone you loved valued their career more than you? How did you react to that? And on the converse, have any of you had relationships with NTs that put your happiness and your wellbeing over their jobs?

  2. #2
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I'm guessing these weren't INTPs?

    My husband doesn't really have a career as such. He sort of just finally picked truck driving out of desperation because he never could decide what he wanted to do.

    His job does take top priority in our family, not because he loves it so much or is delusional enough to think it's making a difference in the world, but because he's the breadwinner and we need the bread.

    He was just laid off from his job, but for the last six years, he's worked 60-70 hour work weeks, which is standard for his field. He doesn't do it because the job is more important to him than I am, but because I'm important to him and he wants our family to have what we need to live comfortably.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #3
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    That is very reassuring to hear; maybe it's not NTs in general but these two NTs in particular. They were INTJs. It may not have been the personality type so much as these two individuals and their maturity/level of understanding of life and other people within that type. Or maybe they didn't love me quite so much as I thought they did.

  4. #4
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    That is very reassuring to hear; maybe it's not NTs in general but these two NTs in particular. They were INTJs. It may not have been the personality type so much as these two individuals and their maturity/level of understanding of life and other people within that type. Or maybe they didn't love me quite so much as I thought they did.
    It's really hard to tell what the cause is, but if you didn't like how it played out, it was right to move on. I don't think it's too much to expect to have a partner who is as committed to the relationship as you are.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #5
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    I have a question for you other wonderful NFs. I've been in a couple of relationships with NT men, and they ended when I realized that I would never be as important to them in the long term as their careers. (I'm more comfortable on my own than in a relationship where I have to fight to prove my importance or value.) Both of these men seemed to think that their work was going to change the human race in such a drastic way that they should crush any human beings that get in their way. (Perhaps you can appreciate the irony. Alas, they could not.)
    This is NOT meant to be offensive. Also, I'm a female INTP - just for your reference.

    Why do you feel the need to "prove" your importance/value to your boyfriend(s)? They’re already in a relationship with YOU – this alone is (usually) a compliment from an NT standpoint, I think. If your boyfriends value their careers, well, shouldn't you respect that? It's something that is important to them (just like feeling valued is important to you). Do you have absolutely nothing else you value over your boyfriends?

    Again, I'm not trying to be harsh on you. Just some thoughts going on in my head right now.
    Enneagram: 5w4 5-9-2 (5w4 9w1 2w1) sp/so

    "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." - Greg King
    The worst mistake people make in political arguments is assuming that the other side is not trying to do the right thing. This simple oversight makes productive conversation nearly impossible.
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  6. #6
    is an ambi-turner BRMC117's Avatar
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    Ahh, Cafe, that was one of the sweetest things I have heard in a long time.

    Liesl, I dated a ENTJ and he never did anything like that. He did however cheat on me and lied to my face on multiple occasions... Jerk
    "I put the fires out."
    "you made them worse."
    "worse...or better?"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    This is NOT meant to be offensive. Also, I'm a female INTP - just for your reference.

    Why do you feel the need to "prove" your importance/value to your boyfriend(s)? They’re already in a relationship with YOU – this alone is (usually) a compliment from an NT standpoint, I think. If your boyfriends value their careers, well, shouldn't you respect that? It's something that is important to them (just like feeling valued is important to you). Do you have absolutely nothing else you value over your boyfriends?

    Again, I'm not trying to be harsh on you. Just some thoughts going on in my head right now.
    No offense taken! I value my relationships (not romantic in particular, but all of them) more than any other aspect of my life; that's an absolute. I believe that the vast majority of NFs feel the same way. We are highly relational people. So, there's that. I don't really view choosing to be in a relationship with someone as a compliment to them so much as a commitment to place great importance and value on them because they bring fulfillment and meaning to me. If anything, I feel you pay someone a compliment by 'allowing' them to be in a relationship with you, but that's sounds strange to me too. I don't metabolize relationships in those terms.

    And, if I respected his desire to put his career over me, I would've stayed in the relationship with him. So, the answer is no. This is what I was getting at with the intent of the thread...it seems to me that NTs think it's acceptable to put work over people (not just in terms of one task or to save time, but as an orientation toward life), and I am trying to generate NF reactions to that. Whilst I do not object to other people leading their lives in that way, I am completely unwilling to live that way as I find it unfulfilling.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRMC117 View Post
    Ahh, Cafe, that was one of the sweetest things I have heard in a long time.

    Liesl, I dated a ENTJ and he never did anything like that. He did however cheat on me and lied to my face on multiple occasions... Jerk
    Jerk indeed!

  9. #9
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    This is NOT meant to be offensive. Also, I'm a female INTP - just for your reference.

    Why do you feel the need to "prove" your importance/value to your boyfriend(s)? They’re already in a relationship with YOU – this alone is (usually) a compliment from an NT standpoint, I think. If your boyfriends value their careers, well, shouldn't you respect that? It's something that is important to them (just like feeling valued is important to you). Do you have absolutely nothing else you value over your boyfriends?

    Again, I'm not trying to be harsh on you. Just some thoughts going on in my head right now.
    I don't think there is anything I value more than I value my husband. I mean, if his well-being was in absolute conflict with that of our children while they were minors, I would have to choose the children out of duty, but other than that, what could be more important than one's life partner?
    Quote Originally Posted by BRMC117 View Post
    Ahh, Cafe, that was one of the sweetest things I have heard in a long time.
    :blushing:
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #10
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    I think in a sense, NFs tend to view relationships as their life's work, their life love as their magnum opus. At least that's true for me. And in all honesty, I've met people of pretty much every type who would agree with that...but it doesn't seem to be as universal as with the NFs.

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