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  1. #21
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I've dated a number of NTs, and they dont see relationships the same way NF's do. nuff said. If you can hang with that youre golden.
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    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  2. #22
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I think that NTs just express love differently. They don't need to be with you all the time and have that kind of emotional intimacy, but it doesn't mean they don't love you.

    My dad's an INTP and although he sometimes gets lost in his own ideas/work/projects he is very affectionate and loving

    Hmm.. but NTJs... The two ENTJ women I know have highly successful careers and terrible marriages

  3. #23
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I recently stopped dating an INTJ for that very same reason: he had a lot going for himself and seemed to like me as well, but the fact that I constantly felt like I was very low on his list of priorities (that and the INTJ tendency to not show much emotion anyway) which seemed to go: life´s project - nothing - work - hobbies- buddies -nothing -romantic life let me to the conclusion that he either just wasn´t that into me in the first place or he was too cold for me to ever be able to be happy with things. Either one would have been a reason to end things (we had only been seeing each other for a relatively short period of time, so not much drama there).

    My INTP ex (long term relationship) made it clear that his life´s project (politics) came before pretty much anything else in his plans for life. But in everyday interaction he always made me feel appreciated and was usually very warm and caring.

    If this is more than anecdotal, the difference might be in that while the INTP has his head in the clouds, trying to figure out a new theory to explain the world, the INTJ is out there trying to conquer it project by project which leaves him with less time (and mental capacity) for human interaction.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    ...what could be more important than one's life partner?
    Sorry, this isn't really directed personally at you, cafe, and I hope I don't come off as too judgmental here or anything but this line made me think about something. I've heard others express this thought before and my immediate response has been to argue with it because I've always thought that YOU are the most important. Whether you are single or in a relationship, with or without children. This is not about being selfish and having absolutely no regard to others around you, but I've always thought that by placing yourself at the top and taking good care of yourself as a person is the only way to take good care of others around you as well. Valuing yourself makes you open to valuing others. Maybe I am being too naive, idealistic and inexperienced but hearing something like this just makes me wonder every time.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    Sorry, this isn't really directed personally at you, cafe, and I hope I don't come off as too judgmental here or anything but this line made me think about something. I've heard others express this thought before and my immediate response has been to argue with it because I've always thought that YOU are the most important. Whether you are single or in a relationship, with or without children. This is not about being selfish and having absolutely no regard to others around you, but I've always thought that by placing yourself at the top and taking good care of yourself as a person is the only way to take good care of others around you as well. Valuing yourself makes you open to valuing others. Maybe I am being too naive, idealistic and inexperienced but hearing something like this just makes me wonder every time.
    I am not a particularly self-sacrificing person by nature, so that just didn't occur to me. I don't really consider myself at the top, but I do consider the well-being of each member of our family as being intertwined and equal.

    Needs come before wants and when needs are in conflict, the person with the greatest, most urgent need comes first. If one person was consistently very needy, then I'd have to figure something out. That really hasn't happened much except when we've had an infant and an infant's needs (though maybe not wants) are always top priority because that is the nature of those little beasties. The needs of the children generally have to come before the needs of the parents, because children aren't able to care for themselves. The wants of the children, however, do not come before the needs of the parents.

    Generally, if a couple is compatible, their needs aren't going to be in absolute conflict. If a partner expects their wants to be put above your needs, they probably are going to have to be cut loose.

    For me, my relationship with my partner is one of the most important factors in my own happiness, so I don't really see it as separate from taking care of myself most of the time.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Generally, if a couple is compatible, their needs aren't going to be in absolute conflict. If a partner expects their wants to be put above your needs, they probably are going to have to be cut loose.

    For me, my relationship with my partner is one of the most important factors in my own happiness, so I don't really see it as separate from taking care of myself most of the time.
    Yes, I can agree with that.

  7. #27
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    I've known a lot of INTJs. They are all extremely bright and ambitious. They're dreamers filled with big ideas. And because they so often excel at whatever they put their minds to, they truly believe that they have the ability to make a big change in the world. This dream is what sustains them (just like how an INFJ might be sustained by her romantic relationship) and I've long learned that if you try to extinguish this drive, it's like trying to extinguishing the soul of an INTJ.
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  8. #28
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    As several have stated, yeu were looking at NT-J's not NT's in general =3

    As an NT-P, I view things as yeu work to live, yeu don't live to work. However, I do feel the need to be 'useful', or important somehow. To provide something in a relationship. That doesn't necessarily mean working, but it can.

    If I sat around the house all day and did nothing, I'd feel horrible, I have to accomplish SOMETHING. It doesn't really matter whot, so long as I feel I did something of value, and especially if it was something my mate could be proud of me for, or would benefit them.

    Admittedly, female NTP may be different than the standard male NTJ that yeu're looking at, but regardless of that, I'd like yeu to think of NT's as not totally married to their jobs and unable to be broken away from such =3

    Some *ARE*. Most are NTJ's.

    In any case, the relationship is the one most important thing; work is just there as a means to an ends; yeu work so yeu can support that relationship. I'd just as soon not have to work at all, but if I have to, I will. If it needs to be done so the relationship can endure, then so be it. We all make our sacrifices for a relationship... they don't come easy, and they don't stay easy. It takes effort, dedication, time, and sacrifice to hold long term.

    Some are married to their jobs... I couldn't go out with someone like that. But alot of NT's are just seeking a way to help their lovers out as best they know how. And alot of the time, they'll reason out that 'best way' mentally, rather than emotionally.

    Hope that helps somewhot, though I'm not sure it will :O

  9. #29
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    That is very reassuring to hear; maybe it's not NTs in general but these two NTs in particular. They were INTJs. It may not have been the personality type so much as these two individuals and their maturity/level of understanding of life and other people within that type. Or maybe they didn't love me quite so much as I thought they did.
    I think the disconnect you're noticing comes from the INTJ / ENFP pairing.... or at least xNTJ/ENFP pairing. I lived with an INTJ for four years and feel like I have some experience in this matter. Admittedly, I didn't understand MBTI back then like I do now. So I'd say some of this is 20/20 hindsight.

    #1 - It wasn't career versus me that was the problem. I never felt like I had to argue that I was MORE IMPORTANT than his career. The problem was bigger than that.

    Human relationships are at the center of my life. I am a successful career woman, but I value my relationships most of all. Not so with INTJs. So I came to understand that my INTJ and I had a disconnect in what we valued most highly.

    I think this disconnect was accentuated by the fact that we both had dominant intuition supported by our rational function (i.e., T/F) with the whole J thing thrown in to boot. In other words, I don't feel this same level of disconnect with all Ts... just INTJs and somewhat with ENTJs.

    It's not that I don't think that my INTJ loved me. He loved me as much as he could. But how he expressed that love and how he prioritized that love was affected by his type.

    Over time I came to realize that while I adore my INTJ friends, I would think twice before dating another INTJ. I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that since relationships and connecting with people are most important to me (a very NF/ENFP position, btw), that I would need to consider carefully before knitting my soul with someone who does not put these things first.

    It can be done (my current boyfriend is my ISTP Socionics Dual - well he's very even between N and S. So he's sort of like an IxTP), but I need to go in with eyes wide open about the disconnect I'll feel.

    That's why I love coming to this forum. All NFs have a unique kinship of commonly shared values. And, NFs are statistically pretty rare. So on this forum, I can find others who share with me a desire to have deep, meaningful emotional connections with people.

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  10. #30
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    putting work before other things is stupid imo, you work so that you can get money and live better, live more freely and have more options on what to do with your life.
    Whats the point of working if you dont do the work to make your life better?

    I think everything in life is finding the right balance between things. If you lean too much on the other side, youll lose the balance and fall there in that direction, going further away from other stuff..

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