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  1. #11
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    I think in a sense, NFs tend to view relationships as their life's work, their life love as their magnum opus. At least that's true for me. And in all honesty, I've met people of pretty much every type who would agree with that...but it doesn't seem to be as universal as with the NFs.
    Makes sense. I will say that I think my husband probably values his integrity as much or more than me and that I would be very unwise to ever make him choose between myself and his principles. I'm not like that myself, but that is something I can respect and admire.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  2. #12
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    No offense taken! I value my relationships (not romantic in particular, but all of them) more than any other aspect of my life; that's an absolute. I believe that the vast majority of NFs feel the same way. We are highly relational people. So, there's that. I don't really view choosing to be in a relationship with someone as a compliment to them so much as a commitment to place great importance and value on them because they bring fulfillment and meaning to me. If anything, I feel you pay someone a compliment by 'allowing' them to be in a relationship with you, but that's sounds strange to me too. I don't metabolize relationships in those terms.

    And, if I respected his desire to put his career over me, I would've stayed in the relationship with him. So, the answer is no. This is what I was getting at with the intent of the thread...it seems to me that NTs think it's acceptable to put work over people (not just in terms of one task or to save time, but as an orientation toward life), and I am trying to generate NF reactions to that. Whilst I do not object to other people leading their lives in that way, I am completely unwilling to live that way as I find it unfulfilling.
    Fair enough. You're very, very articulate, by the way. Two thumbs up!

    Hope you find what you’re looking for in your future relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't think there is anything I value more than I value my husband. I mean, if his well-being was in absolute conflict with that of our children while they were minors, I would have to choose the children out of duty, but other than that, what could be more important than one's life partner?
    I'll get back to you when I actually commit myself to a relationship!
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  3. #13
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    This is what I was getting at with the intent of the thread...it seems to me that NTs think it's acceptable to put work over people (not just in terms of one task or to save time, but as an orientation toward life), and I am trying to generate NF reactions to that. Whilst I do not object to other people leading their lives in that way, I am completely unwilling to live that way as I find it unfulfilling.
    Another NT answer, if you don't mind

    I don't put my work first, but I do take work seriously (well, as much as I can take anything seriously ), which can include a large amount of overtime, plus I'm not big on outward displays of emotion, in particular vocal affirmations. Therefore, if someone was unsure where they stood with me I expect I would cause them much pain as unless I was aware of their uncertainty my being with them is proof enough in my mind of my interest and loyalty.

    It could be that those two guys you were seeing were tools, it could be that work was the most important thing for them, they may have been typical INTJs but I don't see work over relationships as a NT trait, for me family will always come first (I am a tad selfish though and I often put myself before that so long as there is no expense to them), thing is work is never more important, it just may appear that way.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    I have a question for you other wonderful NFs. I've been in a couple of relationships with NT men, and they ended when I realized that I would never be as important to them in the long term as their careers. (I'm more comfortable on my own than in a relationship where I have to fight to prove my importance or value.) Both of these men seemed to think that their work was going to change the human race in such a drastic way that they should crush any human beings that get in their way. (Perhaps you can appreciate the irony. Alas, they could not.)

    I see and get the irony. "You are too stupid to understand and appreciate my greatness/brilliance/intelligence, therefore I won't even bother trying. Now get out of my way you stupid insignificant peon!" could be the catchphrase for many of the NTJ's that I've known.


    I was wondering if any of you have had similar experiences or have felt like someone you loved valued their career more than you? How did you react to that? And on the converse, have any of you had relationships with NTs that put your happiness and your wellbeing over their jobs?
    I've never been in a romantic relationship with an NTJ but I can see how many might have this attitude. I've yet to meet a NTJ that I could see saying something like "relationships are the most important thing" though many seem to have an attitude of "intelligence trumps all else".

    Maybe Satine can provide some good input here???

  5. #15
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I wish I could be that motivated... eh, too much effort to wish. Could someone do that for me? Work is important, but as of now my job requires little demand from my end so I get to think all I want, so it doesn't irritate me. I see the job as important, but not all encompassing.

  6. #16
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I wish I could be that motivated... eh, too much effort to wish. Could someone do that for me? Work is important, but as of now my job requires little demand from my end so I get to think all I want, so it doesn't irritate me. I see the job as important, but not all encompassing.
    I think this is one thing I really like about ENTPs: perspective. Having a purpose and vision to fulfill is important, but let's get real.; working is not THAT great.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    but let's get real.; working in not THAT great.
    And chances are they're not discovering anything new. I find it very hard that anything at this point in technology hasn't already been dreamt, if not made.

  8. #18
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I dunno..I personally always understood it ws part of who he was. I'm together with an INTJ, have been for years, and I suck at what he does best: providing for himself and excelling at what he does. I admire him for that, and it's provided us as a couple with stability in a way that I would never be able too. It's important to him to find a mission in life, and feel like he can take care of himself.

    Though I have to say that as much as he never takes time off, and is always available to the jerks in his company and ready to jump on a plane for them, he *moved* from the country that company is in, to be with me. For me. And his boss hates it, and wishes he had never been as stupid as to allow that as one of the conditions in his contract. Yes, he can be a workaholic, but when he's stressed and done and i can put a smile on his face coz 'I'm being crazy' according to him, which he seems to consider entertaining and much like a holiday, I don't mind. I know I provide him what he needs..and he does the same for me
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  9. #19
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Liesl,

    I think when a person loves you, they include you in their life. It's when they find reasons to avoid spending time that I think they're dropping subtle hints or like the old saying goes: actions speak louder than words. They may not want to say it, but all else shows. Just like when people get all OCD about 'cleaning' or 'money,' it's a form of an escape from dealing with their own personal problems.

    We usually make time for those we care most about. When we don't, it's also a lack of regard, sometimes done unintentionally towards others like acquaintances or strangers.

    I think anyone who knows how to 'balance' their own lives is healthy to be in a relationship with. If they know how to treat themselves right, take care of what they need to do, and then tend to other aspects of their lives- it requires a large amount of 'consideration.' In doing so, they put in forth effort for both parties involved, vice versa. I dated an INTJ once who made it clear that he was serious. When he was at the start of his career, he wanted me to take part in it too.. so I think those guys were jerks. It's good- they did a favor. You sound like a cool cookie. If I were male, I'd date Liesl.

  10. #20
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesl View Post
    I have a question for you other wonderful NFs. I've been in a couple of relationships with NT men, and they ended when I realized that I would never be as important to them in the long term as their careers. (I'm more comfortable on my own than in a relationship where I have to fight to prove my importance or value.) Both of these men seemed to think that their work was going to change the human race in such a drastic way that they should crush any human beings that get in their way. (Perhaps you can appreciate the irony. Alas, they could not.)

    I was wondering if any of you have had similar experiences or have felt like someone you loved valued their career more than you? How did you react to that? And on the converse, have any of you had relationships with NTs that put your happiness and your wellbeing over their jobs?
    I've dated a number of NTs, and they dont see relationships the same way NF's do. nuff said. If you can hang with that youre golden.
    Ground control to Major Tom

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