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  1. #71
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    ENFP.

  2. #72
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    So no one else thinks Obama is ENTP?
    *raises hand*

    Unless he's INTP.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  3. #73
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Anybody posting in this thread in the DC area and hear people talking about him? I'm sorry, you all can conjecture all you want but that man is FE FE FE.

    Yesterday, he went to Ray's Hellburger which is a local burger joint and took some important person from Russia with him. One of my coworker's friend's boyfriend was there. Firstly, that was pretty damn informal to take a diplomat to a burger joint. I've been to Ray's Hellburger and it's popular, but it's kinda greasy spoon. Not the first place I'd take a diplomat, unless there was a specific purpose to establish a certain type of vibe.

    He's has randomly shown up at Five Guys all in DC and is very personable to staff. The thing is, he goes in himself. He doesn't send an aid or a Secret Service agent in. Presidential sightings are fairly common around here since you see the SUV motorcade and all the police cars and streets suddenly being blocked off. But where's the president? Just last week I was having dinner with a friend and walked past Ford's Theater and noticed a lingering crowd. I asked the camera guy what was going on and he said Obama had just finished taping a July 4 special for the troops and had caused a stir because he stopped to chat.

    He's often seen around the Senate buildings walking around. This has been another Secret Service nightmare. Another recent Obama sighting had him accidentally getting off on the wrong floor at some building around here and instead of jumping back on the elevator, he held an small meet and greet with those around him.

    I hear stuff like this frequently enough to believe he actively engages people around him and puts himself in situations where he can engage with people. I do not think an introverted president would willingly choose to be so visible when he doesn't have to be. I've also read multiple local bloggers speaking about how much he interaction he has with the White House intern staff (lowest of the WH pecking order), with contests being held between them and winners getting to have lunch with him.

    Once again, what kind of president puts himself in more with the hoi polloi when he doesn't have to? I'm wondering if he needs to have contact with regular folks and seeks it out to keep his head level and his ear to the ground. It seems like he likes having regular conversations with regular people in regular places and his not walling himself away from contact. What does this indicate?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    But see Estimated Frequencies of Types - CAPT.org. E/I is about 50/50. Lots more J's than P's, and more F's than T's. The biggest difference is there are way, way, way more S's than N's.
    It's ironic how NJs are the rarest even though there are more Js than Ps.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    stuff about obama liking to be around people
    I get it now! Obama likes people therefore he cannot be a T! I don't think it's conclusive to say that this is evidence of Fe. A lot of people say that ENTPs are the most introverted type but they still thrive off social interactions and ultimately prefer to work in the world as opposed to their heads. The difference here is that he's the president, he knows when he has to be out and about and he can schedule things so he has control of when and where he is to a certain extent. This doesn't seem to be largely rooted in Fe. I think he could still be a T. If anything you could argue that he thrives off praise and generally positive feelings lobbied towards him. Let's be honest, most people in D.C. like Obama regardless of their politics. The demographics don't work against him either :P

  6. #76
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    I get it now! Obama likes people therefore he cannot be a T! I don't think it's conclusive to say that this is evidence of Fe. A lot of people say that ENTPs are the most introverted type but they still thrive off social interactions and ultimately prefer to work in the world as opposed to their heads. The difference here is that he's the president, he knows when he has to be out and about and he can schedule things so he has control of when and where he is to a certain extent. This doesn't seem to be largely rooted in Fe. I think he could still be a T. If anything you could argue that he thrives off praise and generally positive feelings lobbied towards him. Let's be honest, most people in D.C. like Obama regardless of their politics. The demographics don't work against him either :P
    I always like to ask people this because they never can produce anything. Do you have any proof for your assertions? Speeches are canned and written by speechwriters. I tried to provide first-hand accounts and more solid resources about topics than just my opinion. Like this one I posted in Obama's type thread Personality Profile of Barack Obama.

    I know I'm about to anger some people, but a significant of ENxPs on this forum tend to overinflate their skills and abilities or see handful of common traits between them and a famous person and assume they share the same type. A cursory glance at the Pop Culture and Type forum with any inventive, well-liked, intelligent, and outgoing person typically typed as ENxP.

    If people want to say Bill Maher or Jon Stewart are ENTPs, I don't fight at that. While there is a broad range of versions of any type, they manifest as classic ENTP style. I would believe Obama was ENTJ over ENTP, but he still more seems way more strategically diplomatic and conciliatory than I would ordinarily think an ENTJ would be.

    From Obama White House Interns: Bags, Meetings, Unforgettable Experiences

    ...In this moment of desperation, looking up from her carefully balanced totes, she saw President Obama look over and flash her a big smile.

    "The smile was so endearing because it was a sympathy smile and a 'I've been where you are' smile," she said. "It was the type of smile that said, 'I have been someone's assistant, I have been in the background, but if you keep working hard, everything will fall into place.' "
    Or here
    "Early Show" co-anchor Harry Smith pointed out that the president talked a lot about "being in the bubble" of the powerful office...

    "He just talked about the loneliness of the job. And some of the loneliness, he embraces. He realizes that he has big decisions that he alone needs to make," she said. "But he misses being out among regular people."
    These are not thoughts that I expect to be utmost in the minds of ENTPs. If I am to believe a good portion of what ENTPs say on this forum is that they don't need people, people are convenient things to bounce ideas off of. He's talking about people in the sense of needing them to connect with emotionally, not so he can debate about an idea.

    And here
    First, this is a normal guy.

    I've spent time with a lot of politicians in the last 15 years. Most of them talk at you. Listening is not their strong suit -- in fact, many of them aren't even very good at faking it. [ExTP anyone???]

    Senator Obama, in contrast, comes across as a normal human being, with a normal interaction style, and a normal level of interest in the people he's with and the world around him.

    We were able to have an actual, honest-to-God conversation, back and forth, on a number of topics. In particular, the Senator was personally interested in the rise of social networking, Facebook, Youtube, and user-generated content, and casually but persistently grilled us on what we thought the next generation of social media would be and how social networking might affect politics -- with no staff present, no prepared materials, no notes. He already knew a fair amount about the topic but was very curious to actually learn more. We also talked about a pretty wide range of other issues, including Silicon Valley and various political topics.

    With most politicians, their curiosity ends once they find out how much money you can raise for them. Not so with Senator Obama -- this is a normal guy.
    This article is interesting because it seems like Obama's general MO of using casual social interactions and building rapport around is floundering and he's not able to get the "in" he's usually able to get to start making changes.
    ...Mr. McConnell, a five-term senator from Kentucky, has made an art form of backhandedly commending the president for his interpersonal skills — not unlike describing an unattractive date as having a “good personality.” Or, in the case of Mr. Obama, “an A-plus personality,” according to a recent gush from Mr. McConnell, who has also described the president as “fun to be around.” When asked for examples of “fun,” Mr. McConnell’s spokesman, Don Stewart, offered a cellphone call between Mr. Obama and Mr. McConnell, who was shopping at a Kroger’s in Louisville (“They chatted about entitlements and the debt commission,” Mr. Stewart said.).
    ...“The president himself has good chemistry with almost everyone,” said Mr. Axelrod, who pointed out that while Mr. Obama served in the Illinois State Senate, he played in a weekly poker game with mostly Republicans, “and not just because he wanted to take their money.”
    Whenever I read about casual interactions people have with Pres. Obama, the first things people say is how accessible he is, how he doesn't make people feel like he's the president, he's personable....his normality.

    If you want to insist he's ENTP fine, because we're both noticing Fe I think. The questions is, is it dom-Fe or tert-Fe? Hell, is it aux-Fe? I notice that the typical Ne-dom buzzwords aren't the first things people mention who have contact with him. But I have noticed very Fe buzzwords being descriptive of his personal interaction and communication style.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #77
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    It's ironic how NJs are the rarest even though there are more Js than Ps.
    NJs are rare, but they're not as rare as they seem, because they have a tendency to test as SJ, or as NP.
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  8. #78
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    NJs are rare, but they're not as rare as they seem, because they have a tendency to test as SJ, or as NP.
    Well yeah that is a given because CAPT had only a limited number of people in the sample, people mistype themselves on a regular basis, statistics aren't always the most reliable because of the "margin of error". There you go.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Whenever I read about casual interactions people have with Pres. Obama, the first things people say is how accessible he is, how he doesn't make people feel like he's the president, he's personable....his normality.

    If you want to insist he's ENTP fine, because we're both noticing Fe I think. The questions is, is it dom-Fe or tert-Fe? Hell, is it aux-Fe? I notice that the typical Ne-dom buzzwords aren't the first things people mention who have contact with him. But I have noticed very Fe buzzwords being descriptive of his personal interaction and communication style.
    You make some excellent points. I think we've shown the limitations of functional analysis as you pointed out. He does seem to be excessively personable to the point that it goes beyond his own immediate needs, underlying agenda, or perhaps fun. I can see what you mean about his seemingly genuine interest, I believe Bill Clinton shared many of the same traits. But at the same time Obama doesn't seem to take too many things personal. He seems very easily able to brush things off his shoulders and move on, which we both know isn't necessarily indicative of a strong Fe (or at least primary function as is the ENFJ).

    I will say that based the article selections you quoted Obama definitely seems more like an ENFP than anything else, but I am still convinced he's just an incredibly balanced T. I think his ambition shows this, his calm, collected nature, lack of emotional outbursts (Joe Biden's this is a big fucking deal). Of course it's certainly possible an F could have learned or practiced all of these traits so I am not going to definitively say I'm correct, obviously I just think I'm correct.

    Regarding what you said about ENXPs over-inflating, yeah you're right as far as I've noticed. I'm not even 100% sure of my own type but I see what you mean. Trying to see yourself as the same if not similar to those that you look up to or admire. I have considered this possibility believe it or not. I am aware of my own biases.

    Also the assertion that ENTPs don't need people is non-sense, even coming from their own mouths. Everyone needs people. ENTPs just use people more so as tools to an end I guess.

  10. #80
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that as a society it is an ESFJ

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