[MBTI General] Typical INFP - INTJ conversation

[OrangeAppled]

Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.

Also, an INTJ incessantly talking about themselves? Seems you haven't actually met any real ones. No surprise, considering the vast amount of mistypes.

Oh no, they were definitely INTJs. And by talking about "me" I mean their interests and thoughts (not necessarily personal details). Considering these were one-on-one date settings with both individuals being INxx types, it's not unbelievable that the INTJ hogged the conversation.

I very much keep my well thought out & supported opinions to myself, which is why it takes a lot to coax them out. I don't have much interest in sharing them, because I dislike conflict (which could possibly result) & it takes a lot of energy to explain them.

There is also a MASSIVE difference between "can not" explain & "will not" explain. I did not say people should automatically appreciate my beliefs - they should appreciate the fact that I have chosen to open up to them because it takes a lot out of me to do so. No one should approach anyone with a sense of entitlement to their thoughts. A single "why?" response is likely to come off that way, especially considering the blank face & monotone voice some INTJs display. Not to mention, why would you ask "why" if you're disinterested because you've already decided their beliefs are unfounded? That attitude is a perfect example of why many INFPs don't share easily.

It seems to me this thread has the INTJs asking why INFPs clam up around them when discussing deeper beliefs/feelings; just because you don't LIKE the reason offered, does not make it untrue. If you won't adjust your style to accommodate the INFP, then don't expect one to open up to you & accommodate you. It works both ways.

Stringstheory explained it nicely as well.

 

[Sabre]

Ok now we have found the equation.
That's the whole point of what I was saying: we won't share with people we don't think fit our definition of being interested.

OKAY, lets see this clear, what are the variables that make this equation work?

>Since we can't talk about opinions. (because I'm not close enough for to be willing to talk)

>We can't try to understand each other because I'm not still worth of it.

>If I try help somehow I can't either because no one asked me for help (since I'm not trusty yet no one will ask for help)

>We are only able to chitchat and anything will never grow from there. (INTJ is frustrated, supposedly the INFP is ok with a so superficial conversation)

Dead End, you can't reach the other side of the mine camp.


And now I say correct me If I'm wrong or if you disagree with it.


We are getting closer to the answer

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

The only other option is to pretend.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I don't get it - if you're not interested in her thoughts, then why even bother at all? You obviously have some interest in communicating with this chick - show it!

I can guarantee you, if she is indeed INFP, shallow chit chat is not cutting it for her either.

And faking it may not work unless you're an excellent actor - INFPs are pretty damn good at smelling out insincerity, especially when it comes to emotional motivations.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I didn't say it was the right choice... just another one. And obviously showing interest isn't enough, or I'd assume she'd have followed the advice everyone has been giving.

 

[stringstheory]

At this point i'm really not even understanding why you're having this issue. I need an example. Without getting too much into specifics, what ARE you trying to talk with her about?

 

[OrangeAppled]

I didn't say it was the right choice... just another one. And obviously showing interest isn't enough, or I'd assume she'd have followed the advice everyone has been giving.

There's a language barrier going on, because that's not what I read....

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

What did you read?

 

[Sabre]

I don't get it - if you're not interested in her thoughts, then why even bother at all? You obviously have some interest in communicating with this chick - show it!

I can guarantee you, if she is indeed INFP, shallow chit chat is not cutting it for her either.

And faking it may not work unless you're an excellent actor - INFPs are pretty damn good at smelling out insincerity, especially when it comes to emotional motivations.

Who said I'm not interested in her thoughts? aren't thoughts opinions?

And I can fake yes but I'm realising that I have to fake to get along and I don't want that, for an INTJ the world is already meaningless to begin with, more fake and predetermined actions make it even more boring

So the question is how INTJs get along with INFPs? How someone grows a friendship? Its based on random feelings between that person? It's something like a fate or has a communication way to be followed?

How does a INFP starts to trust someone? Its based on how to feel with that person in a first glance?

I'm asking tons of questions I know, I apologise.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

And I can fake yes but I'm realising that I have to fake to get along and I don't want that

My interpretation of this sentence: "I don't want to get along."

for an INTJ the world is already meaningless to begin with, more fake and predetermined actions make it even more boring

No, and, um... No.

How does a INFP starts to trust someone? Its based on how to feel with that person in a first glance?

Who the Hell trusts someone after only a glance? Do you think INFP's are retarded or something?

I'm asking tons of questions I know, I apologise.

....

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Find a way to strenghten that Tertiary Fi and see what happens. Let him know some of your opinions and they might share some of theirs with you.

 

[runvardh]

Who said I'm not interested in her thoughts? aren't thoughts opinions?

And I can fake yes but I'm realising that I have to fake to get along and I don't want that, for an INTJ the world is already meaningless to begin with, more fake and predetermined actions make it even more boring

So the question is how INTJs get along with INFPs? How someone grows a friendship? Its based on random feelings between that person? It's something like a fate or has a communication way to be followed?

How does a INFP starts to trust someone? Its based on how to feel with that person in a first glance?

I'm asking tons of questions I know, I apologise.

I still think half your problem is you're talking to an INFP who hasn't grown enough yet. My thing, however, has always been having some kind of similar interest or other to talk about that don't include my beliefs (which are still in the fucking air :steam. I may be an anomaly, though, since many of my interests are more scientific, technical, or psycological in nature.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Who said I'm not interested in her thoughts? aren't thoughts opinions?

And I can fake yes but I'm realising that I have to fake to get along and I don't want that, for an INTJ the world is already meaningless to begin with, more fake and predetermined actions make it even more boring

So the question is how INTJs get along with INFPs? How someone grows a friendship? Its based on random feelings between that person? It's something like a fate or has a communication way to be followed?

How does a INFP starts to trust someone? Its based on how to feel with that person in a first glance?

I'm asking tons of questions I know, I apologise.

Show your interest in her, but in a diplomatic way. A little finesse will go a long way, just as she may have to strive to organize her thoughts better for you to accept. I realize that "finesse" is not INTJ territory, but creating clear arguments for opinions is not INFP territory . In any relationship, some adjustment will be necessary to get along.

IDK about all INFPs, but I begin to trust someone when they have made themselves vulnerable to me, when I've tested the water by revealing some vulnerability about myself, and basically through relating to them. So opening up a bit yourself will get her to open up. Sparking her imagination is always good - you can have playful discussions that are not shallow. Try talking about ideas in a freer way, one which doesn't amount to "this is right, this is wrong".

I don't feel there is any formula for becoming friends, but I don't think it's any kind of magic voodoo either .

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

So opening up a bit yourself will get her to open up.

We agree.

 

[OrangeAppled]

My thing, however, has always been having some kind of similar interest or other to talk about that don't include my beliefs (which are still in the fucking air :steam. I may be an anomaly, though, since many of my interests are more scientific, technical, or psycological in nature.

Nah, I think a lot of INFPs would relate to that.

That's another good point - I won't readily share thoughts that are still incubating unless the other person realizes I'm still playing with ideas. If they realize that & play along, then I may be more game to talk.

And yeah, there are a LOT of "neutral" topics that don't involve an INFP's deep beliefs which should be pretty safe to explore. This message board is a prime example of that.

 

[Sabre]

Show your interest in her, but in a diplomatic way. A little finesse will go a long way, just as she may have to strive to organize her thoughts better for you to accept. I realize that "finesse" is not INTJ territory, but creating clear arguments for opinions is not INFP territory . In any relationship, some adjustment will be necessary to get along.

IDK about all INFPs, but I begin to trust someone when they have made themselves vulnerable to me, when I've tested the water by revealing some vulnerability about myself, and basically through relating to them. So opening up a bit yourself will get her to open up. Sparking her imagination is always good - you can have playful discussions that are not shallow. Try talking about ideas in a freer way, one which doesn't amount to "this is right, this is wrong".

I don't feel there is any formula for becoming friends, but I don't think it's any kind of magic voodoo either .

I think I'm starting to see it clear now.

MagnificentMind, I asked questions they answered them I don't think they are retarded if so why am I bothering with them?

Well its opinion, when something is too predictable it may become very boring, well... sometimes, its just opinion.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

MagnificentMind, I asked questions they answered them I don't think they are retarded if so why am I bothering with them?

Birds of a feather.

Well its opinion, when something is too predictable it may become very boring, well... sometimes, its just opinion.

Life is not too predictable and even if it were, that predictability would not make life meaningless to every INTJ.

Opinion only amounts to so much.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Ok, so I just realized that my last comment was slightly asshole-ish and I will explain myself clearly now. The reason I responded with a slightly irritated tone is because, well... Let me make a list...

A) Sabre insists that the peoples he is talking about are absolutely INFP's and if you'll note, Sabre has even said that these "INFP's" have rejected his analysis that they are in fact actually INFP's - Sabre has painted a wonderful picture for us in which the INFP's, which he insists are INFP's, have become absolutely livid at the outrageous assumption... The truth of the matter, feel free to refrence any number of Sabres previous posts in this thread, is that Sabre knows very little about MBTI and how the types function. So, really, I am most certain that their complete disregard for Sabres amateur opinion is certainly justified. I also believe that Sabre is absolutely convinced that his opinion is fucking right - which it most likely is not - and that SABRE is the one that is being immature with his approach and response.

b) Fucking Hell, man. This conversation should have reached a finale AGES ago. If you are incapable of resolving this matter on your own then you need to just keep your opinion to yourself.

c) If you want to learn by debating, or if you want to learn at all, use fucking google and save everyone the time and energy.

I have more but my break is over.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Much less ass-holish. I'm inclined to agree. You have enough information here from different sources to handle almost any Infp-ish person that exists. Use it.

 

[Sabre]

Ok, so I just realized that my last comment was slightly asshole-ish and I will explain myself clearly now. The reason I responded with a slightly irritated tone is because, well... Let me make a list...

A) Sabre insists that the peoples he is talking about are absolutely INFP's and if you'll note, Sabre has even said that these "INFP's" have rejected his analysis that they are in fact actually INFP's - Sabre has painted a wonderful picture for us in which the INFP's, which he insists are INFP's, have become absolutely livid at the outrageous assumption... The truth of the matter, feel free to refrence any number of Sabres previous posts in this thread, is that Sabre knows very little about MBTI and how the types function. So, really, I am most certain that their complete disregard for Sabres amateur opinion is certainly justified. I also believe that Sabre is absolutely convinced that his opinion is fucking right - which it most likely is not - and that SABRE is the one that is being immature with his approach and response.

b) Fucking Hell, man. This conversation should have reached a finale AGES ago. If you are incapable of resolving this matter on your own then you need to just keep your opinion to yourself.

c) If you want to learn by debating, or if you want to learn at all, use fucking google and save everyone the time and energy.

I have more but my break is over.

Just let it go, I think I know what to do now.
And you don't have to waste more time on me, I apologised many times here and I mean it, I have hard time expressing myself by writing and that bothers more people not only you. I promise you that in a face to face chat I wouldn't look so stupid.

I really appreciate who helped and sorry to have ruined the supposedly fun-purposed thread.