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  1. #61
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    To extend this logic (or lack thereof), consider buying a can of paint. Since paint cans are typically hammered shut at the store after mixing (no photons in or out), the paint inside has no color until opened at home?!
    Schrodinger's Paint!
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  2. #62
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    ^ Now THAT is funny.

  3. #63
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Thinker View Post
    ^ Now THAT is funny.
    It's funnier in my 2nd language of Malay where paint = cat
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  4. #64
    Junior Member under skies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    It's funnier in my 2nd language of Malay where paint = cat
    Okay, that is funny.

  5. #65
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    INTJ here

    Well, from my experience with INFP our conversations are, arguments everytime.

    Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.

    But we have good conversations too, as INTJ with high Ni I can think of lots of silly things and that is refreshing a lot (I am silly most of the times in social groups )

    But off topic: I just wish I knew how to deal with INFPs and get along.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    ^ I think that's a two-person fault. You may come off too aggressive, attacking, know-it-all and push their buttons exactly the right way or all the infps you know are super sensitive and is in their moral-champion mode. When we defend ideas or feelings, we have good intentions, we believe in our principals. On the other hand, sometimes *I* may go overboard - that can be because I am stressed or feeling 'vulnerable' or 'under attack' or 'confused about my own ideas and want to verbalize it'. But I won't (usually) go over if no one provokes me. I don't go around breathing fire down everyone's throats.

    I'd say examine how you communicate with them and see if it is partially your fault also, not just theirs. But it could be theirs solely - meet some healthier, stabler infps. I spend some time with an INTJ (though he has developed Fi) and we argued in a ugly way only once but I argued for about ten minutes and decide it wasn't worth going on about. He has his perspective and I have mine - we can both learn from each other and fully develop our perceptions with each other's support and different expertise. I tried to understand from his point and try to see how mine might collide or be similar to --- I am always shaping my ideals to make it more 'logical, realistic, true, fair, contemporary, etc' I learned from him (as he did from me or so he said, IDK) so it's not an inevitably awful friendship.

  7. #67
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    After 45 years, I have finally and fully realized that being "nice" is much more useful (and fun) than being "right."
    I disagree with this simply because

    1) Being nice and being right aren't mutually exclusive. It depends on the definition of "nice" and who is making the judgment of whether or not something is "nice". For example, an INTJ may think that by telling you the factual truth, he is being nice. And in a way, he might be (e.g. he thinks he's doing you a favor by stopping you from believing in something incorrect or by preventing you from being maliciously swayed)

    2) What kind of fun conversations would we have if we tried to be "nice" instead of "right" all the time? It's in the spirit of the discussion to express your opinions and defend them (as long as you give due attention and sincere consideration of the other person's opinions)! I've had many excellent debates with INTJs and the key is to not take it personally even when it gets heated. So much fun.

  8. #68
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    Well, from my experience with INFP our conversations are, arguments everytime.

    Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.

    But we have good conversations too, as INTJ with high Ni I can think of lots of silly things and that is refreshing a lot (I am silly most of the times in social groups )
    I have had deep and stimulating discussions with INFPs, and for the most part, have enjoyed immensely the company of those I recognize as INFPs. At the same time, I have had the impression that some of them have found me hard to take. One actually told me so, in some detail, and we had a very candid and respectful discussion about how to communicate better to avoid misunderstandings and accommodate each other's styles. I have been on good terms with this person for years now. Other INFPs, however, have said nothing, but still left me with that impression. Can any INFPs here advise me on what is going on in these encounters? Is my impression probably in error, or are INFPs just not disposed to tell people when they get on their nerves?

  9. #69
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    For Rebe and Coriolis


    Since I've talked to INFP its like walking in a field of mines, as it is said lots of times.
    I can't be myself and can't properly have deep conversations with INFPs because they think every time I say "you this", "you that", "in your case" every time I use the pronoun "you" and say something they just explode, think I'm so sure of something and can't make a good discussion with me. When I talk about preferences if I disagree a lot (for myself) about something they like they just explode again and say that don't want to bother them any more.

    In the end, for me to safely walk in the mine field. Our conversations are just completely chitchat and I can't go further and deeper in a friendship (I can't know that person and she won't know me either), I'll just go safely in the mine field but I'll never reach the other side of it.

    It's frustration, that's why I can't just leave it behind.

  10. #70
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    INTJ here

    Well, from my experience with INFP our conversations are, arguments everytime.
    Hmm, I've been talking to a female INFP for a while now and I've never experienced an argument with her. We undoubtably have our disagreements but they are generally expressed in a civil or respectful manner. I accept her for who she is and in return she's graced me with the same. It also helps that we agree on a boatload of things but if we didn't, we both can be assured that we believe in what we do because we think it is the best. I always approach intense discussion with as much of an open mind as I possibly can - it's difficult, of course, sometimes, but possible nonetheless.

    Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.
    Sounds like you're the one who's on the offensive. Tone it down, methinks. Not every argument has to be won or fought.

    But off topic: I just wish I knew how to deal with INFPs and get along.
    Roll over.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



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