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  1. #41
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Perceptions do not rely on light. Even if we are without our eyeballs, we could still perceive things. It makes sense but I think I'm missing something here..
    You can only percieve rational, previously percieved, or possible to percieve, phenomina in a dream. For instance, your brain will not create a new color that your eyes, according to the spectrum, can possibly see; everything in a dream is a stream of logged data that, for some reason, is replaying itself. So, that data had to have been taken in from somewhere, processed, in order to be replayed.

    That seems to be what she was saying, more or less.

    Edit: This was horribly written. I did it in a rush! Bye!
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #42
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri View Post
    Funny, I relate more to the INFP sides of these hypothetical conversations internally. My inner dialogue can be very whimsical!

    But if someone asked me such a question, I'd assume the person was looking for a real answer, so I'm sure I'd come up with the same ol' typical INTJ lines...
    Why assume "real answer?" Why not have fun with it? Go ahead and assume the fantastical... it's a blast!

    Take 'em down the rabbit hole with you. I'll meet you there and we'll make a toast to the "rational" world. Whaddya have to lose?

  3. #43
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    You can only percieve rational, previously percieved, or possible to percieve, phenomina in a dream. For instance, your brain will not create a new color that your eyes, according to the spectrum, can possibly see; everything in a dream is a stream of logged data that, for some reason, is replaying itself. So, that data had to have been taken in from somewhere, processed, in order to be replayed.

    That seems to be what she was saying, more or less.

    Edit: This was horribly written. I did it in a rush! Bye!
    I don't think it was horribly written at all. in fact, it makes perfect sense to me.

    I like the concept of "logged data...replaying itself."

  4. #44
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    INFP: You're a really friendly guy

    INTJ: It is a recent development.
    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    He was dead serous, it was something he had been practicing for a while.
    Basically, being nicer solves lots of problems and it's nice feeling things more/being in tune sometimes.
    Takes a while to realize this for us, imho.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #45
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Basically, being nicer solves lots of problems and it's nice feeling things more/being in tune sometimes.
    Takes a while to realize this for us, imho.
    Agreed. After 45 years, I have finally and fully realized that being "nice" is much more useful (and fun) than being "right."

  6. #46
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Thinker View Post
    Agreed. After 45 years, I have finally and fully realized that being "nice" is much more useful (and fun) than being "right."
    PFFFFFFFFFT!
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  7. #47
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    Nice! I think that's what they wanted from this thread!

  8. #48
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I know in the field of Physics, wavelengths of light are often abbreviated to colours. This is done out of convenience, and references how they are usually perceived in everyday life.

    However, by the layman's use, as was referenced by the original post, colours are a mental phenomena.

    And not surprisingly, this is how my conversations with INTJs usually go. Semantics, them taking things too literally, and me taking things not literally enough. Them never giving the benefit of the doubt, me always giving it etc.
    You are right that much of it comes down to semantics. Color, however, is layman's terminology. In the field of physics, more precision is usually desired, and wavelength, frequency, or energy is used. Color is thus synonomous with wavelength, just not nearly as precise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    no, he's right

    think about it. dreams and hallucinations both allow you to perceive colour when there is no light. and light doesn't have colour until it hits an optic nerve, just a wavelength.
    Perceptions do not rely on light. Even if we are without our eyeballs, we could still perceive things. It makes sense but I think I'm missing something here..
    In a dream, one does not perceive color, one remembers it. Without our eyeballs, we would still perceive many things: sounds, smells, tastes, etc. but not the visual. Asking whether light has color before it is perceived is like asking whether a tree falling in a deserted forest makes any sound. If one considers sound to be the vibration itself, then of course it does; but if one considers sound to be the perception of that vibration, then it does not. Similarly, if one considers color to be an imprecise equivalent of wavelength, then light has that property, whether it is perceived or not.

    Now, to confuse matters further: what about the idea of color where there is no light. Is a blue hat blue in a dark room? How about in a room filled with red light? The fabric of the hat still contains pigments that reflect blue and absorb other colors, so in that sense, it is still fair to call it a blue hat, but with no blue photons to be reflected, it will look black.

  9. #49
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Basically, being nicer solves lots of problems and it's nice feeling things more/being in tune sometimes.
    Takes a while to realize this for us, imho.
    He was 30 at the time, so I believe it. Not that I'm the nicest person in the world...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #50
    Member Talisyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post

    Now, to confuse matters further: what about the idea of color where there is no light. Is a blue hat blue in a dark room? How about in a room filled with red light? The fabric of the hat still contains pigments that reflect blue and absorb other colors, so in that sense, it is still fair to call it a blue hat, but with no blue photons to be reflected, it will look black.
    I like this thinking. I guess it's blue as long as you know that its true nature in white light. However, if you've only ever seen it in red light and it always appears black and you have no knowledge that it's blue, it's a black hat. Its not the absolute truth but perception often stands in for truth.
    I want to be alive To all the life that is in me now, to know each moment to the uttermost.
    (Khalil Gibran from Mary Haskell's Journal June 7, 1912.)

    "I'd rather die than live without Mercy and Love" - House of Heroes, Code Name Raven


    "I write/Slowly at first/Then the words come quicker/Slow in comparison/To my rapid thoughts/I fall silent/In awe of love"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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