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  1. #91
    Member Talisyn's Avatar
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    Great explanation stringstheory. Why? by itself can also seem challenging... and if you want my deepest views I have to feel like I won't be judged, that you are not challenging my beliefs, and that you are really interested... and yeah the extra words really do help convince me of that...
    I want to be alive To all the life that is in me now, to know each moment to the uttermost.
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    "I write/Slowly at first/Then the words come quicker/Slow in comparison/To my rapid thoughts/I fall silent/In awe of love"

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  2. #92
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is so much more verbose, and contains no more information other than that INTJ has heard of B, which may not always be the case. A simple "why?" seems more concise and straightforward, but I get the impression from this thread that INFPs do not prefer it. How do the extra words help? Do they really convey additional meaning, or is it simply considered somehow gentler to use more words to say the same thing? (I have been told in some foreign language classes that using more words to ask a question is more polite.)
    The terse "why" comes off as hostile & demanding. I don't owe anyone an explanation. If choose to deem them worthy to reveal to them my beliefs & values & the things I guard closely, then they better show they'll appreciate it. Otherwise, they are not worth my time, effort & energy.

    The longer phrasing has many implications. First of all, repeating back to them their view as you've grasped it will show you actually understood what the INFP is communicating. At this point, the conversation may get stuck going back & forth a bit as much of the time the person failed to grasp what I even meant to begin with. It's common for INFPs to found themselves misunderstood - it can be hard to articulate thoughts which are rather abstract and in the form of feeling.

    Also, explaining your belief a bit sets the tone - it's sharing and not arguing. Also, your motivations become clearer, and that will put the INFP more at ease. And yes, these tiny nuances mean a lot, as nuance of feeling is something we're acutely aware of.

    More about "discussing" something with an INFP where you both disagree:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1186822

    On a side note, my conversations with INTJs have gone like this:

    INTJ: Me, me, me, me, me, me, me
    INFP: Oh, that's interesting
    INTJ: Me, me, me, me, me, me....and you must think XYZ based on the tiny amount of info I know about you
    INFP: Actually, no, I don't feel that way
    INTJ: Huh.....me, me, me, me, me .....

    The soliloquies on anime get old fast... However, I have never argued with an INTJ...that tends to happen more with INTPs, but I also find them more interesting.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #93
    Member Flutterby's Avatar
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    I'm an INFP and I used to know this person who would constantly disagree with just about everything that I said. It really really annoyed me because I felt like I had to defend myself all the time which was draining and offensive. He actually told me he really liked talking to me though because I had such different opinions and he learnt stuff or something. In any case, I was a lot younger and not able to fully communicate how I was feeling, so my anger and frustration just built and built until one day he annoyed me and I just cut him out of my life completely.

    Reading this thread made me wonder if he could be an INTJ, but I feel a bit bad saying that because it was probably more his lack of social skills and my bad communication than our types. In any case, an example of one of our conversations went something like:

    Me: I don't like microwaved food. I don't understand it and I don't trust microwaves.
    Him: *gives me a scientific explanation of how microwaves work and then tells me how to cook vegies in a microwave*

    Of course, I felt extremely annoyed, like he was trying to tell me what to do and wasn't respecting my opinion. Also, if I couldn't give some kind scientific explanation for what I believed in or what I was doing he would try to say it was wrong or bad because of *insert factual sort of related statement here.*

    Eg. Him: Milk is bad for cats. Me: This is special pet milk and my cat does not drink water.

    He accepted that instantly, but when I went to get her some meat from the fridge he instantly told me 'cold meat is bad for cats.'
    I could have told him that if I could eat things from the fridge my cat probably could too, but I was actually quite offended at this point, because it was like he was attacking my way of doing things or thinking I was stupid or something.

    Also, don't know if this an INFP thing, but to this day I find it very very difficult to tell someone when I am offended. I just expect people to be polite, and if they aren't I get offended and stop talking to them.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    The terse "why" comes off as hostile & demanding. I don't owe anyone an explanation. If choose to deem them worthy to reveal to them my beliefs & values & the things I guard closely, then they better show they'll appreciate it. Otherwise, they are not worth my time, effort & energy.
    Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.

    Also, an INTJ incessantly talking about themselves? Seems you haven't actually met any real ones. No surprise, considering the vast amount of mistypes.

  5. #95
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Good strategy for writing essays too. I understand what you are saying.
    Bear in mind that Ne is the main way that INFPs get data. The more general your words are, the more Ne needs to extrapolate to fill in the blanks. In addition to the tone of voice, it will look for all the non-verbal cues such as body language. If you don't want an INFP to misunderstand you, giving more specific info besides saying "Why?" with a frown or wrinkled forehead would help a lot
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  6. #96
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.
    I'm a little confused as to what this has to do with why bluntness is so offputting to INFPs..."why" isn't offputting because we have unfounded beliefs, it's offputting because not feeling like our opinions aren't valid (not correct, valid) takes the enjoyment out of sharing ideas with others. If you sound like you're interrogating it does not get that point across really well to INFPs.

    If you speak to me in a manner that makes me think that you are being hostile/disinterested, i will probably end the conversation even though i could reply. I put a lot of thought and analysis into my opinions, thank you, i'm not interested in investing my energy into translating the thoughts in my head with someone who doesn't appear to be interested in engaging in constructive dialogue. I make a lot of effort into exploring others' ideas and seeing the validity in them, even if i don't agree so I expect the same courtesy in return.

    Feel free to disagree with me and debate civilly, that's fine! I'm up for it and I enjoy it, but yes only if you can indicate that you "appreciate" what i have to say as valid. i think everyones beliefs and ideas are valid individual level because we all have different life experiences that lead us to different conclusions. That doesn't mean they're right and that you have to agree, but if i interpret hostility in your questioning it means i don't feel we have that common understanding. If this is the case don't be surprised when I pull the plug on sharing my ideas. A blunt "why" is only part of this equation, see the post above for some other parts.
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  7. #97
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    Maybe you don't owe anyone an explanation, but unless you can explain why you think a certain way you shouldn't be surprised if people discard your opinion or even think it's stupid. Also, I find it funny that people should automatically appreciate your beliefs just because you choose to share them. Keep your unfounded opinions to yourself around INTJs if you don't wish to discuss them.


    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    it's offputting because not feeling like our opinions aren't valid (not correct, valid) takes the enjoyment out of sharing ideas with others. If you sound like you're interrogating it does not get that point across really well to INFPs.
    Pretty much, just because you are deciding to tell others doesn't mean that the idea is worth wanting to show interest in (to that person)... so either analyze your idea before speaking it, or don't talk. Is what he is saying. The unfounded idea is what causes the uninterested why.

  8. #98
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    This doesn't appear to be the case with Sabre initial predicament though....seems to me he wants to hear the idea. That's the whole point of what I was saying: we won't share with people we don't think fit our definition of being interested. Or at least I don't. Again, a blunt "why" is only part of the equation.
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  9. #99
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I think Weber's comment was not to be taken further than his reply to OrangeAppled.

  10. #100
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Fair enough^^
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