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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Some posts here make intuition sound like some gut feeling, but i thought intuition, in mbti terms, meant being able to think contextually, being skilled at connecting the dots (Ne is described this way, at least). Yet if you don't have enough "dots" to even do that, then shouldn't you wait till you do?
    I think its confused with some kind of gut feeling because Ne cant sometimes actually see the dots it is connecting. and at times Ne can make you feel like you just get some kind of gut feeling about things, since it just feels like this is the way this is without knowing why if you cant see the dots you connect. Not seeing the dots doesent mean that they arent there, Ne just wont pay conscious attention to this kind of details, but your unconscious might pick them up, combine them into a big picture and the big picture is only seen by the conscious.

    @GemPOPGem

    Imo let the intuition guide you, but dont make decisions based purely on intuition. Maybe try using your Te(you should be able to use your Te at that age atleast somehow) with your Ne and then you just might get enough info for your Fi to make the decision.

  2. #32
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    I love to ignore my Ni. It gets me into major major trouble. Then I have big heartbreaks and usually even bigger problems. Don't ignore!
    ever :/
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  3. #33
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Some posts here make intuition sound like some gut feeling, or instinct, but i thought intuition, in mbti terms, meant being able to think contextually, being skilled at connecting the dots (Ne is described this way, at least). Yet if you don't have enough "dots" to even do that, then shouldn't you wait till you do?

    I'll tell you that I for one experience strong gut feelings too... but on their own, that's just what they are. Feelings. Sometimes they're definitely worth listening to, but that's not a very conscious use of my senses..and I would think it'd be the same case with intuition - a conscious use of S or N would be gathering info to actually work with. Technically, you're all still probably faster at arriving to some conclusion about things in many cases, but for it be so instant... I dunno. I'm stumped on that. I would think your intuition would be EASY to believe, but if you're struggling with belief, then it's a battle with some other kind of instinct.

    And yes, maybe I'm an asshole for being a sensor and jumping into your thread, but it's just my 2c and all that.
    oh no, your insight is quite cool! Intuition is very easy to believe but the practical results can be so bad, that we learn to be careful not to trust it.

    I feel the gut feelings-I attribute those strong urges to Fi-but I didnt understand what they were until I heard them described here. Mine are kind simplistic though, but are like really deep rivers or big red stop signs. I sort of Ne along until I hit one and then I have to stop and ponder for a bit. Running the "stop sign" is usually quite painful for me.

    Ne alone "leaps". I picture it as leaping through clouds using fragments of ideas, tentative connections. Typically I will have upwards of five simultaneous cloud paths being leaped through at once. the paths will constantly be diverging or converging. Every now and then a path will drop out and become something more solidified-several threads begin to join into a common theme. It's like weaving thoughts. I'd say this is Ne starts working with Te-but then I have to talk about the idea to complete it. Often I begin to vocalize or share the idea at the point where the threads are converging-it is incomplete still. I need feedback.

    In this thread it sound more like NeFi-where we get gut feelings from Fi and rapidly use Ne to fill in the blanks about those gut feelings. In the past I might see/feel another person seeming stressed via Fi, then I Intuit that they are stressed due to me. Or maybe they are in a bad mood-I assume it was something I did. Or maybe they dont smile-I assume they dont like me.

    Worst case, I see a series of disparate events from a single person, then assign them motives-almost always the worst case scenario-then become very angry at the other person and hurt. My thoughts can get very mean at this point-then I learn later I was totally wrong.

    By about 20, I had realized this pattern, so learned to distance myself emotionally and become more logical. I may still have the internal gut feeling and worst case scenario, but I rationalize the situation and then just place the intuition as a data point on the shelf-until I have more data.

    Another big learned lesson-Assume most people have good intentions.

  4. #34
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I think its confused with some kind of gut feeling because Ne cant sometimes actually see the dots it is connecting. and at times Ne can make you feel like you just get some kind of gut feeling about things, since it just feels like this is the way this is without knowing why if you cant see the dots you connect. Not seeing the dots doesent mean that they arent there, Ne just wont pay conscious attention to this kind of details, but your unconscious might pick them up, combine them into a big picture and the big picture is only seen by the conscious.
    That kinda freaks me out You guys (I guess I'll include NT too) are very different then (and interesting too ).

    I think I can be contextual and grasp the bigger picture (a little at least), but I would describe it as a conscious building up process..I'm aware on how I got the big picture, and could chart out every detail (but maybe I'm just aware because i'm a sensor and knowingly turning other faculties on and off....hmm..or something like that).

  5. #35
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    I agree with others here about paying attention to what intuition is telling you about a person and to not wait for facts to back up what you're feeling. What's difficult is when you experience an overwhelming sense of positive intuition about a person, all the signs of a friendship and more are there, you receive unmistakable signals in return that verify your intuition, and then as much as you're willing to follow your heart, the other person (who is also very intuitive), begins to distrust their intuition and instead starts to rationalize and over-think. In this situation, I have no regrets about going far out onto a limb because my intuition was so strong (and I fell in love), but with that comes the risk of finding yourself on an emotional cliff.

    In the past, when I haven't followed my intuition about a relationship, I regreted it later. In one instance, early in our relationship, a boyfriend said something that made me think: mmmm, this could be a problem for me. I liked so many other things about him, I ignored my intuition. As it turns out, that one comment illustrated a basic issue he had about doing things his way and only his way with little true regard for my feelings or input. That turned out to be a major stumbling block for us and we parted ways.

  6. #36
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Another big learned lesson-Assume most people have good intentions.
    This is how good intuition is developed.

    You learn, for yourself, "what your bad intuitions sound like." There are certain intuitions that almost always lead you astray. I, too, have learned to assume that most people have good intentions, that most people believe they are being reasonable, and my predictions are far more accurate if I make these assumptions and only alter them in exceptional cases.

    At more advanced levels, it helps to understand probability theory, statistical selection effects, and so on, to filter out the crap. In particular, statistical selection effects will introduce "trends" in your data (intuitive or otherwise) that make things look different from reality, that introduce rules and assumptions that are false and potentially misleading.

    Probability theory helps to point out where things can "sound like" one thing, but are really something else. Consider the following probability problem:

    You are on an plane trip, sitting next to a man you just met. During the course of conversation, he mentions that he has two children. One of his children is a boy. What is the probability that the other child is a boy?

    Most people will answer, 1/2. 50%. This is the wrong answer.
    The correct answer is 1/3. 33%.

    The probability space is boy-boy, boy-girl, girl-boy, girl-girl. The conditions of the problem eliminate only the girl-girl possibility. Of the remaining possibilities, two have the other child as a girl, one has the other child as a boy. Hence, 1/3.

    If the problem were phrased, "His oldest child is a boy," instead of, "One of his children is a boy," then the probability would be 50%.

    Storing this kind of reasoning as part of one's intuitive understanding makes one's intuition far more accurate. And what you store isn't "oh, in this kind of probability problem, the probability is 1/3, not 1/2" ... rather, you store "very subtle word changes can totally alter the boundary conditions of the problem; look for those subtleties and check to see if they drastically change your intuitive conclusions."

  7. #37
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Some posts here make intuition sound like some gut feeling, or instinct, but i thought intuition, in mbti terms, meant being able to think contextually, being skilled at connecting the dots (Ne is described this way, at least). Yet if you don't have enough "dots" to even do that, then shouldn't you wait till you do?

    I'll tell you that I for one experience strong gut feelings too... but on their own, that's just what they are. Feelings. Sometimes they're definitely worth listening to, but that's not a very conscious use of my senses..and I would think it'd be the same case with intuition - a conscious use of S or N would be gathering info to actually work with. Technically, you're all still probably faster at arriving to some conclusion about things in many cases, but for it be so instant... I dunno. I'm stumped on that. I would think your intuition would be EASY to believe (because you have info), but if you're struggling with belief, then it's a battle with some other kind of instinct.

    And yes, maybe I'm an asshole for being a sensor and jumping into your thread, but it's just my 2c and all that.

    When you think of a guy like Einstein that many consider brilliant and super intelligent (and who was an N) you gotta see that he wasn't consciously thinking to get to many of his conclusions...N just works very subconsciously and arrives to conclusions without you being aware of it really. Sometimes you know the solution to a problem and can't really explain why if you really stop and take your time to do it.

    That's why emulating geniuses is so difficult. Most is just subconscious. It's not that they have lots of conscious processes that are miles ahead of others. Most of it is instinctual. The way it becomes instinctual is another matter, but my point still stands.

  8. #38
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    Ha ha this reminds me of my thread.

  9. #39
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    I still like to test something out, its a nice feeling knowing i was already right on though. my faith in my intuition is only reinforced and im not afraid testing it over and over again.

  10. #40
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    You are on an plane trip, sitting next to a man you just met. During the course of conversation, he mentions that he has two children. One of his children is a boy. What is the probability that the other child is a boy?

    Most people will answer, 1/2. 50%. This is the wrong answer.
    The correct answer is 1/3. 33%
    No. You cant know what the correct answer is because some couples tend to make more children of the same sex than others.

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