[MBTI General] Contention: ENTP female + INFJ male

[SinistralPal]

So, there is a thread on here that basically goes on and on about how AWESOME AND AMAZING the ENTP + INFJ dynamic is. However, this thread seemed to be from a male ENTP perspective on INFJ females (and according to INTP posts on the thread, the love of INFJ women has been brought up by many ENTP males).

So, my question is, does this "perfect" relationship dynamic still hold true for ENTP female + INFJ male?

In my opinion, classic female and male roles in relationships in an ENTP female + INFJ male dynamic would be extremely skewed. An ENTx male is the stereotypic epitome of this classic "maleness" - he's logical, intelligent, he loud and dominant. He's the bread earner and the "master of his domain". And the INFx female? Again fits the stigma of this kind, nurturing, gentile soul. She is that proverbial damsel in distress waiting for her brave knight.

Now look at ENTx women. Aggressive, dominant, analytical, cunning. Now, combine this with the nurturing INFJ romantic, and you've got yourself quite the male/female role-reversal so to speak. This, in my mind would almost epitomize the "modern" relationship of the woman more likely to fall into the "bread earner" role in family, and the male counterpart being more likely to play the role of "stay at home dad". Maybe this can work, but could it last? Or would the parties involved become too uncomfortable with these "roles"?

Also, in my opinion, ENTx women vs ENTx men, tend to have a stronger developed Fe/Fi function, and seem to be very attuned to social expectations and dynamics, much in the same way an NF would. Therefore, would they feel comfortable with a man with also a high amount of NF? Or would they feel uneasy about "emotional overload"??

Are ENTx women between a rock and a hard place, or can this type of relationship thrive??

(Please do not be offended by any of my blatant stereotypes in this post. It was to serve a point by using hyperbole rather than be offensive.)

 

[Virtual ghost]

You mentioned INTJs deliberatly in this post or that T is a typo ?

 

[SinistralPal]

Gah, thanks. xxxP = does not check over work. /facepalm. Edited now!

 

[Virtual ghost]

Gah, thanks. xxxP = does not check over work. /facepalm. Edited now!

The reason why I came into this thread is because I have heard that ENT women have a number of problems when it comes to romance. So they are looking for someone that is pretty similar but someone that is low on "drama"
since that makes them uncomfortable. Especially since they as women should comfort their SO most of the time.


In other words long ago there was a thread which said that female ENTPs should be looking for INTJs.


Just saying.

 

[Billy]

So, there is a thread on here that basically goes on and on about how AWESOME AND AMAZING the ENTP + INFJ dynamic is. However, this thread seemed to be from a male ENTP perspective on INFJ females (and according to INTP posts on the thread, the love of INFJ women has been brought up by many ENTP males).

So, my question is, does this "perfect" relationship dynamic still hold true for ENTP female + INFJ male?

In my opinion, classic female and male roles in relationships in an ENTP female + INFJ male dynamic would be extremely skewed. An ENTx male is the stereotypic epitome of this classic "maleness" - he's logical, intelligent, he loud and dominant. He's the bread earner and the "master of his domain". And the INFx female? Again fits the stigma of this kind, nurturing, gentile soul. She is that proverbial damsel in distress waiting for her brave knight.

Now look at ENTx women. Aggressive, dominant, analytical, cunning. Now, combine this with the nurturing INFJ romantic, and you've got yourself quite the male/female role-reversal so to speak. This, in my mind would almost epitomize the "modern" relationship of the woman more likely to fall into the "bread earner" role in family, and the male counterpart being more likely to play the role of "stay at home dad". Maybe this can work, but could it last? Or would the parties involved become too uncomfortable with these "roles"?

Also, in my opinion, ENTx women vs ENTx men, tend to have a stronger developed Fe/Fi function, and seem to be very attuned to social expectations and dynamics, much in the same way an NF would. Therefore, would they feel comfortable with a man with also a high amount of NF? Or would they feel uneasy about "emotional overload"??

Are ENTx women between a rock and a hard place, or can this type of relationship thrive??

(Please do not be offended by any of my blatant stereotypes in this post. It was to serve a point by using hyperbole rather than be offensive.)

You are using female nurturing stereotypes on males... Why would a male INFJ stay home and let you work? INFJ males are natural networkers and do exceptionally well in society with people. Especially once they hit thier stride and get over their intial awkwardness and shyness in life. I am dating an ENTJ female right now and I make way more money then she does, we work well together because we both do our own thing and get together on the stuff that we share in common. Sex, horror movies/snuggling on the couch, dinner at cool new places etc.

I would say it really depends on the male, I am a very nurturing person, but I would say I am more nurturing to peoples physical needs then their emotional needs because I like to be practical and logical. For my part in the relationships I have I would say I dont come off as nurturing so much as just really generous and emotionally available. I still retain my masculinity, even if I can get emotional about stuff at times. I am sure this is true of most INFJ males, especially since the nature of Ni kind of detaches us slightly fro reality, so we are a little cooler then people realize sometimes.

 

[SinistralPal]

In other words long ago there was a thread which said that female ENTPs should be looking for INTJs.

*Moment of revelation* Ah-ha! INTJ's!!
*Moment of apprehension* Ohh...all those ENFP's clamouring to get the limited INTJ supply.
*Moment of revelation* Mass genocide...


...and so, deep into the night, SinistralPal works tirelessly drafting plans to put her ideas into action...

 

[Lady_X]

and..the infj females i know are definitely not the damsel in distress type. they are very self sufficient competent people and will not need the "man" to do stuff for them.

 

[SinistralPal]

and..the infj females i know are definitely not the damsel in distress type. they are very self sufficient competent people and will not need the "man" to do stuff for them.

Please note my comment at the end of my post: (Please do not be offended by any of my blatant stereotypes in this post. It was to serve a point by using hyperbole rather than be offensive.)

I actually know an INFJ female VERY well....my mother. In a way, yes, she is extremely self-sufficient, yet, she does need comfort and protection in her family dynamic. We do get along very well, but I am not sure if I could date/marry that type. However, that being said, I have very limited experience with INFJ males...

 

[Lady_X]

oh sure not in the least offended. i was just saying that isn't quite the dynamic as i see it. i would see the entp guy being more dependent on the infj then the other way around...just loosely based on my infj mother and enfp dad

 

[SinistralPal]

You are using female nurturing stereotypes on males... Why would a male INFJ stay home and let you work? INFJ males are natural networkers and do exceptionally well in society with people. Especially once they hit thier stride and get over their intial awkwardness and shyness in life. I am dating an ENTJ female right now and I make way more money then she does, we work well together because we both do our own thing and get together on the stuff that we share in common. Sex, horror movies/snuggling on the couch, dinner at cool new places etc.

I would say it really depends on the male, I am a very nurturing person, but I would say I am more nurturing to peoples physical needs then their emotional needs because I like to be practical and logical. For my part in the relationships I have I would say I dont come off as nurturing so much as just really generous and emotionally available. I still retain my masculinity, even if I can get emotional about stuff at times. I am sure this is true of most INFJ males, especially since the nature of Ni kind of detaches us slightly fro reality, so we are a little cooler then people realize sometimes.

It is true, I fell into the same faux pas I was criticising. Mia colpa. As mentioned in my earlier post on this thread is that I have experience with my own INFJ mother, and limited experience with INFJ males. I would say that my mom is self-sufficient, and I would say pulls in a higher salary than my dad. However, she can be...emotionally demanding at times. I heard this from other NF males - they require a lot of attention and affirmation in the relationship. One friend of mine sited this as the reason for his divorce.

Interesting comments though Billy. Have you found any of these sorts of problems in your relationship? How do you feel you and your SO handle arguments and emotional stresses? You mentioned you are more "emotionally available" - to me this implies more "receiving". Do you find your ENTJ tends to instigate emotional conversations more then?

 

[SinistralPal]

oh sure not in the least offended. i was just saying that isn't quite the dynamic as i see it. i would see the entp guy being more dependent on the infj then the other way around...just loosely based on my infj mother and enfp dad

Funny. That's what I would have typed my parents as.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah? oh that's cool...and was your mother the sane rational one?

 

[SinistralPal]

yeah? oh that's cool...and was your mother the sane rational one?

Oh man, well, it's only the three of us (I am an only child) and the dynamic between the three of us is just...funny. Pretty much all we do is scream at each other that we are all insane. My mom can't stand me and my dad - cuz we are so xxxP it isn't funny. We both go off wandering around and don't come back. Ha. My mom ties things together and plans things out to keep us all to a schedule (fails miserably, haha). I constantly criticize my mom for making rash and illogical decisions based on "gut instinct". She can be uber-mystical. Sometimes that can work to my advantage though - if my dad or I come up with some crazy daft plan, she'll be the cheerleading squad, haha. My dad seems to be the one that takes the "sober second look" at things and tries to approach it rationally. However, if he flies off the handle at something, my mom starts to wear the "logical shoes" if you will. It's a weird balance. That being said, I /facepalm at my parents a lot, haha.

Oh yeah, and despite me living in another country, I never feel detached from them. Sometimes that can be very reassuring, and sometimes a little constricting. Either way, I am glad I grew up with them <3

 

[Lady_X]

oh that's funny...i love that. we had 3 enfps in our family...fun fun..

 

[runvardh]

Look more to your values than the four letters. The four letters just help in translating communication.

 

[SinistralPal]

ENTP's have...values??

 

[runvardh]

ENTP's have...values??

I know it surprised the shit out of me when I found that out myself - in-sane . Seriously though, if you can find out what you value and look for the guy based off that, the four letters turn more into the style of communication needed rather than some brick wall of "OMG, how do I deal with this?!!!!!!!!11111!!1111".

 

[Weber]

Good luck. I believe INFJ males are less than 0.5% of the population.

 

[SinistralPal]

Good luck. I believe INFJ males are less than 0.5% of the population.

innorite? fuck me.

....hence another reason to post the contention. "You expect us to find these mofos??"

 

[Esoteric Wench]

So, my question is, does this "perfect" relationship dynamic still hold true for ENTP female + INFJ male? In my opinion, classic female and male roles in relationships in an ENTP female + INFJ male dynamic would be extremely skewed.

I think this is a very interesting point, worthy of consideration. Gender undoubtedly plays a role in how type manifests. Thus, it must undoubtedly play a role in these kind of dynamics.

Your Assumptions - Gender Roles Support male ENTP/Female INFJ pairings
Your question seems to based on the assumption that a big component of ENTP male / INFJ female happiness relies on a stereotypical male / female dynamic. Ergo, if the perfectness of this relationship is damaged when the woman is the ENTP.

I'm not sure I think that I agree with your thought process here. What draws INFJs/INTJs and ENTPs/ENFPs together is the synchronicity in their respective function hierarchies.

• ENTP — Ne > Ti > Fe > Si > Ni > Te > Fi > Se
• ENFP — Ne > Fi > Te > Si > Ni > Fe > Ti > Se
• INTJ — Ni > Te > Fi > Se > Ne > Ti > Fe > Si
• INFJ — Ni > Fe > Ti >Se > Ne > Fi > Te > Si

Note that except for the T & F functions being switched between the Thinkers and Feelers, the hierarchy of functions is in the same order. This seems like it'd be stronger glue than housewife/breadwinner roles in how these four types pick their mates.

My Assumptions - All People Feel Pulled to Fit In:
Minimizing the Gender Stereotype Gap
But I do think there is something going on here.

I hypothesize that the farther out of gender stereotype someone is, the higher their motivation will be to choose a mate they perceive will help them close the gender stereotype gap by allowing them to express the aspects of their personality that are gender stereotypical.

So who is farther out of gender stereotype of the four types I listed above?

Introverts > Extraverts
Males > Females

Well, men have more rigid expectations re: their societal roles than women. And, E's focus their energy outside themselves which grounds them in the world and keeps them cognizant of how their behavior is judged by others. I's tend to be more impractical and less influenced by outside pressures.

Thus, male introverts out of gender stereotype (i.e., INFJ males) experience the greatest gender gap and thus have the strongest motivation to choose a mate that helps them get closer to the male ideal.

By the same token, ENTP women would experience the least gender stereotype gap. Thus, they would have very low motivation to pick a mate that would help them modulate their out of gender stereotype tendencies.

The $64,000 Question
Which of the four personality types listed above do INFJ males perceive will be their ideal complement AND help them more comfortably express their stereotypical maleness. I predict the ENFP. She is unafraid to lavish her lover with all manner of pda and adoration; in general, she is not interested in leading others or being confrontational; she is more than willing to tailor her approach to meet her male INFJ's needs thus in some ways he sets the agenda.

If my theory is correct, an INFJ male will be far less motivated to pick an ENTP female. In sum, I predict that while female ENTP / male INFJ matches might have all the advantages of the male ENTP/ female INFJ pairing in terms of complimentary cognitive processes, INFJ males will be less attracted to the dynamic here.

<Insert cringe here, while Esoteric Wench waits on it to 'hit the fan'.>