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  1. #21
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think INFJ men are lovely and fun and there is a definite click, but I wasn't all that impressed relationship-wise. But I guess you can make it work with any type, if you respect the person enough. And I really love being around NFJs.

    For me personally, I settled on an INTP, but could imagine myself with an INTJ in some other lifetime. I would stay the hell away from NFPs - they are great but I find that I have way too many (dramatic) misunderstandings with them.

  2. #22
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    Good luck. I believe INFJ males are less than 0.5% of the population.
    Actually they are less than 25% of 1% of the population. Yes, that's right, they are only 0.0025% of the population. Then, if you take out the 10% that are gay, the ones that are married, and the emotionally unhealthy ones, etc. Well, let's just say that ENTP/ENFP women are SCREWED... or perhaps I should say not getting screwed.

    Whenever I find a male INFJ, I get all excited like I found a Wheat Penny. LOL!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Actually they are less than 25% of 1% of the population. Yes, that's right, they are only 0.0025% of the population. Then, if you take out the 10% that are gay, the ones that are married, and the emotionally unhealthy ones, etc. Well, let's just say that ENTP/ENFP women are SCREWED... or perhaps I should say not getting screwed.

    Whenever I find a male INFJ, I get all excited like I found a Wheat Penny. LOL!
    I think INFJs as a whole are slightly more than 1%. Also, that's two zeroes too many

  4. #24
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    That's two zeroes too many
    Awww hell. I still remember saying a little prayer to God when I got a C+ in Calculus.

    25% of 1% = 0.25% = 0.0025

    As far as the percentage goes, I've yet to find a scientific study with methodology I respect with a large enough sample, to find any demographics information I'd consider reliable.

    For example, one study in 1998 found that INFJs made up 1.7% of the population. But the study was seriously flawed. (This is the one listed on Wikipedia, btw.) There is another study (also with flawed methodology) that's alluded to on CAPT.org that lists INFJs as being 1-3% of the population. Yet other studies say less than 1%.

    So I guess if we were going to get really precise with it, the best answer I'd give is we don't reliably know. But they are pretty rare.

    Ergo, ENFP/ENTP women are still screwed.
    Last edited by Esoteric Wench; 06-11-2010 at 09:07 AM.

  5. #25
    Member SinistralPal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I think this is a very interesting point, worthy of consideration. Gender undoubtedly plays a role in how type manifests. Thus, it must undoubtedly play a role in these kind of dynamics.

    Your Assumptions - Gender Roles Support male ENTP/Female INFJ pairings
    Your question seems to based on the assumption that a big component of ENTP male / INFJ female happiness relies on a stereotypical male / female dynamic. Ergo, if the perfectness of this relationship is damaged when the woman is the ENTP.

    I'm not sure I think that I agree with your thought process here. What draws INFJs/INTJs and ENTPs/ENFPs together is the synchronicity in their respective function hierarchies.
    • ENTP — Ne > Ti > Fe > Si > Ni > Te > Fi > Se
    • ENFP — Ne > Fi > Te > Si > Ni > Fe > Ti > Se
    • INTJ — Ni > Te > Fi > Se > Ne > Ti > Fe > Si
    • INFJ — Ni > Fe > Ti >Se > Ne > Fi > Te > Si

    Note that except for the T & F functions being switched between the Thinkers and Feelers, the hierarchy of functions is in the same order. This seems like it'd be stronger glue than housewife/breadwinner roles in how these four types pick their mates.

    My Assumptions - All People Feel Pulled to Fit In:
    Minimizing the Gender Stereotype Gap

    But I do think there is something going on here.

    I hypothesize that the farther out of gender stereotype someone is, the higher their motivation will be to choose a mate they perceive will help them close the gender stereotype gap by allowing them to express the aspects of their personality that are gender stereotypical.

    So who is farther out of gender stereotype of the four types I listed above?

    Introverts > Extraverts
    Males > Females

    Well, men have more rigid expectations re: their societal roles than women. And, E's focus their energy outside themselves which grounds them in the world and keeps them cognizant of how their behavior is judged by others. I's tend to be more impractical and less influenced by outside pressures.

    Thus, male introverts out of gender stereotype (i.e., INFJ males) experience the greatest gender gap and thus have the strongest motivation to choose a mate that helps them get closer to the male ideal.

    By the same token, ENTP women would experience the least gender stereotype gap. Thus, they would have very low motivation to pick a mate that would help them modulate their out of gender stereotype tendencies.

    The $64,000 Question
    Which personality type do INFJ males perceive will be their ideal complement AND help them more comfortably express their stereotypical maleness. I predict the ENFP. She is unafraid to lavish her lover with all manner of pda and adoration; in general, she is not interested in leading others or being confrontational; she is more than willing to tailor her approach to meet her male INFJ's needs thus in some ways he sets the agenda.

    If my theory is correct, an INFJ male will be far less motivated to pick an ENTP female. In sum, I predict that while female ENTP / male INFJ matches might have all the advantages of the male ENTP/ female INFJ pairing in terms of complimentary cognitive processes, INFJ males will be less attracted to the dynamic here.

    <Insert cringe here, while Esoteric Wench waits on it to 'hit the fan'.>
    First off, I love you. The way this whole argument is structured and composed....just delicious.

    Second, yes, that is exactly what I was alluding to - how gender roles can impact so-called "ideal" MBTI pairings.

    Thirdly, thank you for confirming my suspicion that ENTP women are basically screwed. =\ (And for all those female ENTP's out there that are in long-lasting, loving, joyous relationships: I hate you all. :-P)
    01010101011011100110100101110100011110010010000001 10001101100001011011100010000001101111011011100110 11000111100100100000011000100110010100100000011011 01011000010110111001101001011001100110010101110011 01110100011001010110010000100000011000100111100100 10000001110100011010000110010100100000010000100110 10010110111001100001011100100111100100101110

  6. #26
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    You're not the only one who has it bad...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #27
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinistralPal View Post
    First off, I love you. The way this whole argument is structured and composed....just delicious.
    Thank you. My INTJ mother and ENTP father raised me to have kick ass Te.

    Quote Originally Posted by SinistralPal View Post
    Second, yes, that is exactly what I was alluding to - how gender roles can impact so-called "ideal" MBTI pairings.
    Yeah, I think it's all pretty interesting to think about how gender affects the way type is expressed. I saw my mother struggle with such issues a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by SinistralPal View Post
    Thirdly, thank you for confirming my suspicion that ENTP women are basically screwed. =\ (And for all those female ENTP's out there that are in long-lasting, loving, joyous relationships: I hate you all. :-P)
    Well, there's still INTJs. I've dated both INFJs and INTJs as well as my Socionics dual ISTP (which for you would be an ISFP). These are all very nice matches for either an ENTP or an ENFP with killer Te.

    I will say that my gut tells me (and, I'm not sure why) that a female ENTP would be a good match for a male INTJ. I'll ponder that a bit. But I bet that'd be a very strong match.

  8. #28
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Well, let's just say that ENTP/ENFP women are SCREWED... or perhaps I should say not getting screwed.
    Come on! I think that is likely to be the least of their worries!
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  9. #29
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinistralPal View Post
    It is true, I fell into the same faux pas I was criticising. Mia colpa. As mentioned in my earlier post on this thread is that I have experience with my own INFJ mother, and limited experience with INFJ males. I would say that my mom is self-sufficient, and I would say pulls in a higher salary than my dad. However, she can be...emotionally demanding at times. I heard this from other NF males - they require a lot of attention and affirmation in the relationship. One friend of mine sited this as the reason for his divorce.

    Interesting comments though Billy. Have you found any of these sorts of problems in your relationship? How do you feel you and your SO handle arguments and emotional stresses? You mentioned you are more "emotionally available" - to me this implies more "receiving". Do you find your ENTJ tends to instigate emotional conversations more then?
    To be perfectly honest I have only been seeing her a brief period, but I have dated a few NTs and NTJs. I am very into giving and receiving affection and intimacy, but I do have my limits, sometimes I need my own space, on this front I work well with NT type women because they usually have their own stuff going on and are adamant about maintaining their independence, thats fine with me, I have plenty to do on my own.

    We dont talk much about feelings, she isn't so comfy with it, we show a lot of feelings though with actions.

    I can see why some would say NF males or INFJ males could be kind of needy at some points, but I think that has more to do with age/maturity then anything. I was much more needy when I was younger, now I rarely have time to see whoever I am dating... so.. I unno.

    She is quite shy at times though, she will drop me hints as to what she wants because she feel embarrassed about saying it, but I am fantastic at reading between the lines, so I tend to lead the most in the situation.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  10. #30
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    I'm with Jeno.

    The dynamics with INFJs looks great on paper but gender differences do change things in reality, any pair could work great but the ENTP/INFJ, as with the ENFP/INTJ pair, appears more cohesive with Male T, Female F.

    I don't say that because of any role reversals though, I'd suggest that combinations with a T Female and F Male may be less attracted to the other due to their personal expectations of what kind of masculinity/femineity their partner should have.

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