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  1. #1
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Default Perhaps you all can help me out

    Hi. I'll try to make this short-ish.
    I've been living in South Korea (for the second time) for about 4 months now, and it seems that I've made only male friends. I'm frankly surprised at this because I've hardly managed to make male friends at all before, let alone half a dozen of them. Equally perplexing is the lack of female friends, which has generally not been a problem in the past.

    I feel really isolated from the other women. They travel without inviting me, but frankly I don't know if I'd want to come with them. Still, I'd like to be invited, at least ONCE. Give it a try.

    I'm nice. I'm friendly. A bit quirky or spacey sometimes. Maybe a little opinionated and bossy (oldest child, really, I was socialized for those) but relatively easy to work with and easy going. Talkitive. Intelligent enough.

    I study Korean, I read the news, I watch youtube videos. In the evenings I work out and watch National Geographic. I like Sci-fi. I like hiking. I like eating organic food and talking about how to free your home from toxins. Shopping for something other than books or music or...icecream is only done when neccessary.

    Now, a prime example is that I walk past the office the other day and some of my Korean coworkers are sitting with one of the English speakers and they're all laughing and talking. So I stop near the open door and listen, thinking that maybe if I know what they're talking about I could get them to laugh like that around me. They were talking about shopping, and buying a purse to match their shirt. This weekend they're going out...to watch Sex in the City 2.

    It's a purse, and possibly a second installment of an already rediculous movie. And I realized that even if I were to join in the conversation what I have to say would stop it dead in its tracks.
    I seem to offend or drive away women often lately.

    I feel at a loss.

    Now, I love hanging out with the guys. Spent some time at a coffee shop last night discussing pack mentality in humans with a few of them. Good times. But, I'd like to be able to have a girl over, to discuss periods and blah days and wanting to cry and those ocassional times I do see a dress I love and...girl things.

    Am I missing something? I wonder if it's because most (all?) of the women I'm around this time are clearly S and some of the men are clearly N. I never had to try to make female friends before, it just happened. Help?
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
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  2. #2
    Pumpernickel
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    It could be a lot of things. They could just be snobby or jealous of you. Or maybe they think that YOURE snobby. Or maybe they sense that you clearly lack an interest in the things that they find interesting and that you guys just wont have anything to bond over. Or maybe theres just no incentive for them to befriend another female. It could also just be cultural differences (assuming that is the case). Who even understands women these days?

  3. #3
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    It's hard to get anything going if there isn't even a small commonality of interests. It happens all the time no matter whether you or your audience are the same or opposite sex.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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  4. #4
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Yeah, I mean....hell, I usually feel that way around women anyway, and I'm a chick too! Really I don't think you're missing out on anything. Sometimes it sucks to not really feel like you belong in social situations, but if you think about it, wouldn't you rather hold out for someone who is actually interesting to you? Does the problem really lie with you, or with them? (or both...or neither...)

    My advice to you is branch out in your social circle. Ask some of your guy friends if they have any friends you might get along with. Go to a bar or local event or something if you're into that.... Really, I've found that the more people I come in contact with, the more likely I am to get to know and find someone that I'm interested in.
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  5. #5
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    thanks. I mentioned this to a middle aged Korean woman at my work shortly after I posted this post. she said "The girls are very nice. They like the shopping. They want to be your friend. But, they like the not deep things. You like maaaany deep things....they have no reason to have interest in you."
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
    -Teddy Roosevelt
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  6. #6
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    thanks. I mentioned this to a middle aged Korean woman at my work shortly after I posted this post. she said "The girls are very nice. They like the shopping. They want to be your friend. But, they like the not deep things. You like maaaany deep things....they have no reason to have interest in you."
    Yeah...and it sounds like the opposite is true. But maybe just try to interact with them occasionally, at work, especially if they want to be friends with you and they're otherwise nice girls. It might make you feel like the situation is better, and sometimes it's nice to sit around and talk about dumb bullshit like purses and shoes. You just won't likely find a close friend in such a group, is all.

    Honestly, find a girl that is "one of the guys" too, and you'll probably find that you get along well. That's how i've found all of my girl friends
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  7. #7
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    thanks, stringstheory. I never thought of that. Hopefully I'll find one of those ladies that I can make friends with soon.
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
    -Teddy Roosevelt
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  8. #8
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Brio, I really feel for you. And, I know EXACTLY what you're going through. And, frankly this has caused me a lot of loneliness over the years.

    All I can do is tell you my experience and hope it sheds some light on things for you:

    I have always felt different from the mainstream. Always. I felt like the people I encountered just didn't talk about things that interested me. And since a lot of our youthful years are spent hanging around our cohorts of the same gender, I felt most keenly the pain of being different from most of the women I encountered.

    In retrospect, I don't think it's that men talked about less ephemeral crap than women. It's just that I tended to hang out with more N men... not because I sought N men out per se. It's just that when I hung out with guy friends, I did this because we had things in common. When I hung out with women, I think it was more likely b/c these were girls on my dorm hall, or that I went to class with, or that worked in the cubicle next to me. In other words, having common interests was not such a determining factor in selecting my female acquaintances.

    I've since come to understand that what was probably going on here was an S/N thing. I would go crazy listening to the ephemera the women around me would talk about. I would also be frustrated by the overly sentimental cultural touchstones these women/girls shared.... like wanting to go ooooh and ahhhh at the Gee Whiskers store in the mall. Ugh! But the men I hung out with were mostly Ns. Unbeknown to me, I was selecting N guys to hang out with.

    Even after all my studying of MBTI and type theory, it's still hard for me to appreciate how different Sensors are from Intuitives. If the S/N dimension is about the information we take in, then it certainly makes sense that this dimension is a divergence in personality and world view that is profound. Because however we organize our world or orient our energy or make decisions.... all of these things are based on the information our brains choose to take in and further process. And Ss and Ns take in and process very different information.

    So two things have helped me with this feeling of lonliness:

    #1 - I actively seek out and befriend Ns. It took me some practice, but I can spot 'em in one five minute conversation. Go find ye some Ns, girl. And, in your case find yea some female Ns. They're probably hanging out with the male Ns in your acquaintance. Ns do tend to self-select each other.

    #2 - Forgives Ss for just being Ss and learn to appreciate the wonderful things they bring to the table. This was the hardest thing of all for me to do. But, I've come to learn that Ss have it all over Ns in certain areas. They see details I do not. They appreciate what is in front of them... and sometimes I miss what is in front of me because I'm stuck in the thinking about what might be. They aren't burdened by all this analytical head crap that sometimes plagues me.

    If you can come to appreciate S's and the positive things they can bring to your life, then you'll be able to move beyond this internal dialogue in your head that no one understands you which can be off putting for Ss who get this vibe off of you. (God knows when I was really young I was guilty of this.)

    I hope this helps.

  9. #9
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    They probably don't invite you because, from reading the original post, you judge them and they can sense it?

    They were talking about shopping, and buying a purse to match their shirt. This weekend they're going out...to watch Sex in the City 2.

    I study Korean, I read the news, I watch youtube videos. In the evenings I work out and watch National Geographic. I like Sci-fi. I like hiking. I like eating organic food and talking about how to free your home from toxins. Shopping for something other than books or music or...icecream is only done when neccessary.

  10. #10
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    If she even had a chance for them to get ideas that she was judging them . . .

    I wonder if this is a common occurrence. I've had the same experience in a couple countries where I've lived (bunch of guy friends but few/no girls), which is odd because I usually have slightly more girl friends here. And I definitely had no opportunity to present a judgmental attitude.
    If there are other foreign women, but they are invited, then it could be worth it to check the difference in your presentations -- or skip it and befriend the foreign women.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
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