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  1. #71
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Slightly extreme but do people change? Or should we tar people with the same brush because this is how they once behaved?
    If a guy has hit his last six girlfriends I don't think there's a magical woman who is going to be so special that he's not going to hit her. If it was one girlfriend that he had some kind of really bad mojo with years and years ago and hasn't laid his hand on a woman in anger ever since, then that might be a possibility. Generally speaking, I haven't seen too many people change all that much. It does happen, but it's extremely rare.

    If they are raging drunk every weekend as long as I've known them, I'm going to expect them to be raging drunk every weekend until they've stopped doing that for a couple of years and I'm going to be aware that they have a fairly high likelihood of falling off the wagon if the going gets tough.


    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    There is no probably about it .. I don't have a list. I take each situation as it comes, weigh up the pros and cons as ultimately i have the choice if i want to stay in the relationship.
    That's way more risk than I, personally would want to take with my life. It's not rocket science to analyze probabilities and come up with likely outcomes. I don't have to learn everything by experience (ie, the hard way).

    I don't think it's too big a deal if other people do that as long as they don't put other people in bad situations because of it. Generally, though, kids get put through all kinds of crap because their parents won't use a little foresight.

    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    But most women here did write on their list superficial stuff.
    And most of them didn't put superficial stuff in their Must Haves or Deal Breakers -- unless they had had previous bad experiences with certain behaviors.
    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Thank you You validated my point in that people can hold such strong views but when the right person comes along, we care/love them with their flaws and all.
    Actually, it depends on the flaw. Whether or not a man is balding is one thing. Whether or not he hits women and drinks his whole paycheck is another thing entirely.

    There were several points during my relationship with my husband where I was watching very closely to see what he would do. If he had made a deal-breaking choice, I would have ended it.

    For example -- his mother was attempting to micro-manage our wedding. If he had caved into her and allowed her to do it, I probably would have called it off. I did not want a three person marriage and would rather be single than have had one.

    I really, really doubt anyone (that is reasonably mature and intelligent) is going to let some little superficial thing be a deal breaker unless they have a really good reason for it, regardless of what they may think they may do.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #72
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Cafe, so are you saying that he gets a free pass if he screws around on you just once? LOL!
    No, I'm saying I am not certain I would let one extremely stupid act end the 18+ year life we've built together. I can't say with absolute certainty that it would be an automatic divorce. There would be some serious re-evaluation, though, definitely.

    I also can't imagine a universe in which my husband would cheat. He's a Horton from a long line of Hortons. I could see myself cheating before I could see him doing something like that.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #73
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Potential reasons for divorce:


    -Refusing help/counseling through serious relationship problems; denying them; discounting their severity
    -Repetitive emotionally/physically destructive behavior in the presence of a child or directed towards a child; refusal to learn new parenting and/or coping skills
    -Repetitive emotionally/physically destructive behavior directed towards me with no obvious desire to change, or few improvements made over a reasonable amount of time
    -Persistently rude and unfriendly to others; unprovoked aggressive behavior; frequent exaggerated reactions to other people's mistakes
    -Drug use/alcoholism or other addictions
    -Lying about important things
    -Cheating; I wouldn't leave just because of an episode of cheating.
    -Intentional involvement in crime/s
    Edit: Also, a sexual/emotional disconnect or incompatibility showing little to no signs of improvement over the course of time
    ------
    I really enjoy sports events; particularly, college football. My first love was a football player and my husband is a sports enthusiast who loves to play most sports as well. Video games count as sport to him. Now that my son plays, I enjoy baseball too. I never really played team sports(skillfully), but my preference has always been for a combination of brains and brawn. I hike, bowl, fish, and swim quite frequently; so yea, a man who likes sports is OK with me.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    ...
    There are some superficial things on the lists here in the 'must haves' and 'deal-breakers' sections. Again, not as many as I've seen in others, but they're there.

    Actually, most of what I'm seeing is more blanket statements that nix a whole lot of guys when it could've been just a bad experience with ONE particular person in that category (but then, as they say, "one bad apple...")or perhaps a lack of proper education or a biased opinion of one particular topic.

    I could go through and point out some specifics (and its tempting), but I really don't want turn this thread into something its not.

    Personally, I like Saslou's attitude. Maybe because its more in line with how guys approach a potential relationship, I dunno. Just the fact that its more like recognizing that people are INDIVIDUALS with their own set of strengths and flaws, opinions, experiences, character, and reasoning. You can always give it chance and take some time to really feel a person out, then bail if your 'character judge radar' starts pinging red flags. It takes time to really get to know someone, and you may find that initial perceptions may not have been correct.

    I've met several women who were not initially that attractive to me or something threw a small blip on the radar. I would be uninterested or slightly more cautious, but as time went on and I learned more about them and as I got to know them, they became more and more attractive until I simply adored them. I discovered that blip was a false positive. Some people have been through some really bad stuff, maybe they're still working on some things, but you learn the progress they've made and what they've been through and realize that they really are amazing people.

    Not saying this is always the case. There's been some where its just been "WARNING! WARNING! DISENGAGE IMMEDIATELY!!!", but the possibility for the other has happened and could happen at any time.
    "People in glass houses shouldn't use Windex when living near bird sanctuaries."- myself

    "We are never alone my friend. We are constantly in the company of victories, losses, strengths and weaknesses. Make no mistake, life is war...and war is hell. Those who fight the hardest will suffer the most...but that's what you have to do: Fight. As long as you're feeling pain, then there's hope...because only the dead do not suffer." -RD Metcalf
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #75
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Speaking as a guy, there are certain patterns I've seen repeated in my dating attempts that are getting too much like statistics instead of just outliers. When something becomes a statistic it's good to pay attention to it and keep it in mind as part of a list of things to look for or beware of.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #76
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    1. Must Haves
      1. Chivalry
      2. Patience
      3. Intelligence
      4. Inner Strength
    2. Rather Nots
      1. Games
      2. Talks too much
      3. Sports fanatic
      4. Of the 'F' persuasion
      5. Of the 'J' persuasion
    3. Deal Breakers
      1. Frigid
      2. Pushy
      3. Boring
      4. Effeminate
      5. Controlling
      6. Afraid of Bugs
      7. Drives a Chevy Camaro
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddy View Post
    Loving the lists so far, NF ladies.

    Must Haves
    - Sense of adventure
    - Sensuality
    - Honest and open communication
    - Wit, cleverness
    - Ability to read me well
    - Interesting and interested
    - Thoughtful
    - A somewhat similar sense of direction in life to mine, so that we can be partners in crime
    - Thoughtful

    Would likes
    - Cheekiness
    - Spontaneity
    - Good taste
    - Romantic and a little chivalric
    - Good masseuse
    - Liberal
    - Active
    - Experimental

    Rather nots
    - Obsession with sports
    - Poor diet
    - Bad taste

    Deal breakers
    - Shallowness
    - Explosive, bad temper
    - Aggressive and domineering (outside of the bedroom )
    - Poor humour
    - Sexist
    - Racist
    - Ignorant
    - Passive-aggressive behaviour; relationship games
    - Snobbery/pretentiousness

    These are the only 2 lists where I'm neither lacking something from the must haves nor having something from the deal breakers.

    I love college football. Actually, I'm not sure if I love college football so much, but I definitely love hanging out with friends while college football is on or going to the games with them. But after the game is over I rarely remember what happened and I guess I really just like hanging out.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Speaking as a guy, there are certain patterns I've seen repeated in my dating attempts that are getting too much like statistics instead of just outliers. When something becomes a statistic it's good to pay attention to it and keep it in mind as part of a list of things to look for or beware of.
    Oh without a doubt. You can also learn vicariously through others by watching how relationships play out amongst others you know.
    Question is: Are you still willing to give it chance, or do cut somebody out at the 1st sign of a similar behavior without attempting further investigation?

    (On a side note: I think I can actually FEEL my Ti trying to take over this topic. *Addresses his Ti and Fi* "I told you two to get along, neither one of you is strong enough to out-muscle the other and it always gives me a migraine when one of you try.")
    "People in glass houses shouldn't use Windex when living near bird sanctuaries."- myself

    "We are never alone my friend. We are constantly in the company of victories, losses, strengths and weaknesses. Make no mistake, life is war...and war is hell. Those who fight the hardest will suffer the most...but that's what you have to do: Fight. As long as you're feeling pain, then there's hope...because only the dead do not suffer." -RD Metcalf
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #78
    Phantonym
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Looking over these lists, I am reminded of an ENTP friend who used to say "Love is deciding what kind of fucked up you can deal with." Nobody is going to be perfect, and they're highly unlikely to even fit the list.

    So I can't do it. I can't make the list. Go ahead and take my NF badge away. I'm just not enough of an idealist anymore.
    This is perfect. Saves me the trouble of saying it. Except that I have no problems of continuing on to be an idealist (this makes sense in my head and I'm sticking with the story ).

  9. #79
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_400 View Post
    Oh without a doubt. You can also learn vicariously through others by watching how relationships play out amongst others you know.
    Question is: Are you still willing to give it chance, or do cut somebody out at the 1st sign of a similar behavior without attempting further investigation?
    That depends on which one it is hence the difference between deal breakers and preferences. I play by the numbers and take calculated risks based on those numbers - one of the reasons why I don't gamble. I have my own risk to benefit ratio that forms a gray band and the calculations don't stop until the individual's patterns form a better context to work off of.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #80
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    These are the only 2 lists where I'm neither lacking something from the must haves nor having something from the deal breakers.

    I love college football. Actually, I'm not sure if I love college football so much, but I definitely love hanging out with friends while college football is on or going to the games with them. But after the game is over I rarely remember what happened and I guess I really just like hanging out.
    Can I please marry you?

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