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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abstract Thinker View Post
    Not trying to speak for others, but maybe the NF idealism and imagination makes these kind of lists possible and fun, but in a whimsical way?

    Like I've seen mentioned on this thread already, when love actually happens the list goes out the window, and fast.
    If she were obese or a druggy who sleeps around and has a handful of baby daddy's it wouldn't of concern for you? Right..

    What a fallacy. It's so easy to get so worked up and self-righteous when proof isn't in the pudding.

  2. #252
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Well, I certainly don't want to intentionally offend people, but I don't want to be someone I'm not either. If others judge me harshly for being who I am, then so be it.

    Still, this negative reaction baffles me.

    I think the thing that puzzles me most, is that some people are taking this sooooooooo literally. I doubt if almost any of these lists are meant to be literal. They are larks, exercises in fantasy, and frolics.

    Not everything has to be literal. And, I hazard to say that to most NFs, the world would seem very one dimensional if things were all literal. What's so hard for me to understand is that anyone sees the world in such literal and concrete ways.

    And, thus is the difference between S and N.

    It is almost inconceivable to me that anyone would let the facts get in the way of a good intellectual frolic. (Yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole here, but not much.) It is not that Intuitives ignore the facts, but they find the their hunches, gut feelings, and intuitions, more compelling and something that they've come to rely upon.

    So to those who find these lists offensive, I ask you to consider that they are not meant to be taken literally. At least my two lists were not.

    Do you really think I'd dump a hot prospect because he had a unibrow? Of course not. I'd give him a can of Nair first, then whisper sweet nothings into his ear.
    This is a good point too.....I think the Ne women in here particular just like to throw out ideas to explore. That's why it can be easy to make a huge list - one idea leads to another, then another, and there's this endless stream of possibilities to consider. The fact of the matter is, we actually make decisions with our Feeling function, which is much more like to get to the heart of the matter in a holistic way which does not involve analyzing to the Nth degree (pun intended). Then you say "this feels right" and analyze it just to glean understanding of the feeling, not to pick it apart so as to judge it (as it is a judgment in itself).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #253
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunz76 View Post
    If she were obese or a druggy who sleeps around and has a handful of baby daddy's it wouldn't of concern for you? Right..

    What a fallacy. It's so easy to get so worked up and self-righteous when proof isn't in the pudding.
    Huh? Don't get that last part. If you mean me, I'm not worked up or self-righteous at all. Sounds like you are though.

    Obviously, extremes are out, and when you present them like that, they make for boring and pointless debate.

    Just sayin' that I'm open-minded, especially when the chemistry is there.

  4. #254
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    I could come up with a list of "deal breakers" or must haves or what have you but i probably have gone against all i would put down because at the end of the day it really just comes down to the individual, because people vary in so many ways.
    However there are some very serious no-no's but i imagine they are the kind that everyone would have e.g no peodophiles, rapists, serial killers etc They would never get a look in.
    It's not that i am not fussy (because i am incredibly fussy-Gempop style) but i tend to appreciate people on an individual basis.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  5. #255
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    So does that mean you actually hate me and prplchknz, or that we're the best NFs because we're really SFPs?
    It means you both are knee deep in your analysis and your defiance...means you're SFPs yep

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    It means you both are knee deep in your analysis and your defiance...means you're SFPs yep
    If by being SFP you mean I get to be excluded from the pretentious, holier than thou club, then sign me up.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This is a good point too.....I think the Ne women in here particular just like to throw out ideas to explore. That's why it can be easy to make a huge list - one idea leads to another, then another, and there's this endless stream of possibilities to consider. The fact of the matter is, we actually make decisions with our Feeling function, which is much more like to get to the heart of the matter in a holistic way which does not involve analyzing to the Nth degree (pun intended). Then you say "this feels right" and analyze it just to glean understanding of the feeling, not to pick it apart so as to judge it (as it is a judgment in itself).
    This is exactly how I am. I love your description of the bolded part. I turn over and over in my mind conversations and imagine said discussions to understand, as you say, the feeling that I have. I always go toward a holistic view. I don't want to pick the conversation apart just for the heck of it, I want to understand why I'm feeling what I'm feeling, because I trust it so much. I'm so averse to judgment, so I know it's not that I'm looking for a judgment or conclusion. People are more complicated than that. It's just wanting to understand that gut feeling, or to try and make sense of it, that I value so much. Sometimes I just have to give up and say: I don't understand right now (because there is another human being involved), and maybe I will later.

  8. #258
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Yeah. I hear what your saying marm, but I think of INFJs and ENFPs as being mirror relations.

    INFJ = Ni > Fe > Ti > Se > Ne > Fi > Te > Si
    ENFP = Ne > Fi > Te > Si > Ni > Fe > Ti > Se

    And whenever I talk to an INFJ, boy can I tell. I want to say, "Get out of my head, you damn, INFJ."

    Of course, they look at me like I have Tourette's when I blurt out such nonsense.

    It might just be me, but my RL interactions with ENFPs have been sketchy up until recently at best. We usually but heads. I got along way better with INFPs. My mom is an ENFP granted but after awhile she and I really grate on each other's nerves.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I think it interesting that so many of the NF women who have posted lists on this thread have expressed ambivalence and trepidation about doing so.

    The concerns seems to fall into two areas:
    1. That such a list makes it more likely that good matches will be overlooked.
    2. By writing such a list, the list maker will appear shallow or superficial. (Or even worse, IS shallow or superficial.)

    I say a definitive HOGWASH.

    Whether we formally write these lists down or not, we all have them in our head... even if they are not consciously articulated. Furthermore, writing such a list isn't shallow... nor is putting a few quirky items on there like big hands. Using such a list to categorically reject people is shallow.

    Sooooo.... seems like the best thing is to embrace that dating is a sorting process. And this sorting is very healthy. And guys, you can tell a lot about a woman from such a list. Seems like a pretty good sorting tool for you, too.

    Since posting my first list, I've decided that I need to be a lot braver about saying what I'd like in a man and what I don't. Ladies, you have inspired me.

    Don't worry, gentlemen. I won't apply it too strictly. But it will help me remember to kick those shallow assholes to the curb a lot sooner so I have more time "on the market" to find some of the kind, sweet, considerate, good-hearted men that are out there.

    Esoteric Wench's Deal Breakers - List #2 (aka the shallow and really obnoxious list)

    1. Must Haves

    * Ambition. Not a lot of money. Just a desire to do something and do it well.
    * Mindfulness. Yeah. Everything does matter.
    * Self-Actualization. Never quit growing as a person. <-- Boy is this hard to find.
    * Spiritual maturity. Church not required. Ethical and spiritually mature perspectives transcend religious institutions.
    * Kind heart. Especially when the going gets tough. That's when real character comes through. Douchebaggery is most unattractive.
    * Humility. Yes, you are an idiot. But that's OK. I'm an idiot, too.
    * Intensity. I'm a pretty darn intense person at times. If you're a wall-flower, I'm gonna knock you over with my own energy. Quiet intensity is even better. Oh so yummy.
    * Dependable. There's not gonna be room in our relationship for two flakes.
    * Polite comportment. An appreciation for gracious living. This is very hard to find in our current culture.
    * Well-Educated. Formal education not necessary. But you have to be able to keep up with me and even teach me a thing or two.
    * Love of learning. I love learning new things. So should you.
    * Be able to call me on my own crap when necessary. I know it's hard to believe, but even Esoteric Wench needs someone to reign her in every once in a while.
    * Wordie. Or at least not wordie adverse. If you can't give me a run for my money in Scrabble, you need not apply.
    * Creative. Oh this is most attractive.
    * Well-groomed eyebrows. I've just got this thing about that. It drives me nuts to see two llamas taped to a guy's face... or even worse... one very long and big llama.
    * Passion for the Arts (Or at least a willingness to be supportive of me in my passion for the arts.)
    * Baseline proficiency in lovemaking. Come'on.... If you haven't figure this out by my age, then there's no saving you. Ability to be playful and adventurous in bed is a big plus. Also, being unafraid to be sexually assertive... even sometimes aggressive... is a HUGE turn on. (I'm weak in the knees just writing these words.)
    * A penis. Thanks marmalade.sunrise for reminding me of this necessity. You've can have everything else on this list, but you've gotta have the right equipment, too.

    2. Rather Nots

    * Any interest in any spectator sports... You wanna get up off the couch and play yourself? More power to ya. You wanna sit around watching other people play... I don't think so. Certain sports by the way, automatically qualify as deal breakers, including: NASCAR, wrestling, and college football.
    * Smoking. It's a disgusting habit. And, I don't want to breathe your smoke either.
    * Less than 5" taller than me. (I'm 5'6" so you do the math.) Shallow perhaps. But it's a visceral, perhaps biological thing, with me. I just am not attracted to shorter guys. (At least this is the only measure of length or girth I put on this list.)
    * Lack of Healthy Libido. More than twice a week, but under twice a day, seems a good guideline.
    * Long hair. Only 1 in 10 women can keep their long hair looking good. Unless your name is Fabio and you have a personal stylist, your long hair is probably gonna look like crap. Just cut it short and be done with it. If I wanted to date a teenager, I'd volunteer to serve as a chaperon at my local prom.
    * Overly Intrusive Previous Entanglements (e.g., 4 kids from 3 former wives.) I want to build a life with you... not share in the leftovers of someone else's life.
    * Any behavior that falls below the level of "Excellent Oral Hygiene."
    * An Unwillingness to Curtail Excessive Hirsute Tendencies. (See item about eyebrows above.) I know that you've gotta work with what you're born with, but you do have options. Gentleman, body wax is your friend!

    3. Deal Breakers

    * Love of College Football (Yeah, I'm serious.)
    * A Tivo subscription to American Idol or that show with those people on the island. In fact, any intense fascination with that ilk of reality TV programs. They represent all that is soulless and wrong.
    * Arrogance. (See humility above.)
    * Not a Good kisser. This is a definite deal breaker for me. I love kissing... and no, it doesn't have to be leading anywhere. I love just kissing for kissing's sake. You've either got the gift or you don't.
    * Selfishness. It's not all about you.....
    * Dislike of Reading. And if all you read are John Grisham novels, business books au currant, and Sky Mall Magazine, this does NOT count.
    * Close Minded. Ohhh... if you can't see that there is more than one way to skin a cat, then this pussy cat can't be bothered with you.
    * Un-knowledgeable in current affairs. You don't have to have a subscription to the Foreign Affairs, but show some interest in the world around you.
    * Lay About Attitude. Get up off that couch and do something with your life.
    * Overly single-minded pursuit of hedonistic activities. I like to have fun, but there is more to life than partying. Yuck.
    * No Sense of Adventure. aka stick-in-the-mudness is definite no no.

  10. #260
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    If by being SFP you mean I get to be excluded from the pretentious, holier than thou club, then sign me up.
    My point exactly. Yours and Chicknz's stances seem quite ironic.


    And that's quite stereotypical of you to equate that to NFdom. It's a minority. It doesn't tend to get heard as much out there. Of course their opinions are going to seem anti-social to a degree.

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