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  1. #241
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    I'll admit, i haven't read through the thread fully yet. Personally, i take no offense though. I know that my list is in place because i've dealt with compromise and found i don't enjoy it, but i also refuse to whine about people not fitting the criteria. That's a decision that people need to make and and accept based on their guidelines.
    I've found that a lot of people either have very few guidelines and have found themselves in miserable/failing relationships or people who have extensive guidelines and find themselves bawwing about how no one fits them. There are in-betweeners and exceptions, but those are prevalent.
    yeah...i really should just stop posting. i rarely read it all the way through...oh damn...actually i just read the first line of your post too.

    and...i haven't read even one whole list in this thread...well...i mean if it was longer than like 5 things i didn't read it but i agree with something someone said...totally can't remember who...but they said it was really just like a te exercise trying to write out that whole elusive vibe thing that's experienced more so than it is all of these things...it's usually experienced in that intuitive either right or wrong way without knowing the specifics.

    edit: just adding that i will now finish reading your post...i would've lost my thought you see.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #242
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I don't understand how you guys DON'T see the nit-pickyness and unrealistic parts...it's kind of baffling to me...prplchknz felt compelled to make an entire thread about it...for people who are supposedly so self-aware, there seems to be a lack of awareness about how others might possibly view this...if I am, indeed, an NF, and so is prplchknz, then we really must be able to take ourselves out of ourselves and see the way NF idealism can look to others...otherwise, I give up and hand in my NF card, seriously...
    Well, I certainly don't want to intentionally offend people, but I don't want to be someone I'm not either. If others judge me harshly for being who I am, then so be it.

    Still, this negative reaction baffles me.

    I think the thing that puzzles me most, is that some people are taking this sooooooooo literally. I doubt if almost any of these lists are meant to be literal. They are larks, exercises in fantasy, and frolics.

    Not everything has to be literal. And, I hazard to say that to most NFs, the world would seem very one dimensional if things were all literal. What's so hard for me to understand is that anyone sees the world in such literal and concrete ways.

    And, thus is the difference between S and N.

    It is almost inconceivable to me that anyone would let the facts get in the way of a good intellectual frolic. (Yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole here, but not much.) It is not that Intuitives ignore the facts, but they find the their hunches, gut feelings, and intuitions, more compelling and something that they've come to rely upon.

    So to those who find these lists offensive, I ask you to consider that they are not meant to be taken literally. At least my two lists were not.

    Do you really think I'd dump a hot prospect because he had a unibrow? Of course not. I'd give him a can of Nair first, then whisper sweet nothings into his ear.

  3. #243
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onceuponatime View Post
    Well for starters the long ass nitpicky lists in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by onceuponatime View Post
    Well IMO they're a bit unrealistic and I find it to be a turnoff. Nobody has to agree with me, I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's just what I think about it. Now you can all calm down and go back to being self-absorbed.
    I don't see them as nitpicky or unrealistic in the slightest because

    1). The vast majority of the lists focus on personality qualities of a person that have no definite measure. It's not like they say, "He must be 6 feet tall, earn 100k a year, and share my favorite band". Personality qualities are intangible & abstract, which leaves them very open to interpretation. If you grasp that, then you see just how flexible most of these are. For instance, I have "kind" on my list - well, my idea of that may be different from another person's idea, and my idea may even be broad/flexible enough to encompass many different ways of being kind. The main point is that I see some sign of kindness in a person...which brings me to my next point.

    2). The vast majority of the lists focus on qualities that would aid in the success of a long term relationship. A lot of people date someone else simply because they are cute & fun, and then down the road in turns out that cute & fun doesn't cut it for making a marriage or long term relationship. If anything, these lists are MORE realistic in that they actually address what materials are needed to build a strong foundation for a relationship. To me, kindness shows me how they deal with people in general, because eventually, the infatuation bubble will pop & that's how they'll begin to deal with me. A truly idealistic, naive person will think that some undefinable attraction alone will make it work - just wait til that wears off....:rolli:

    3). A good chunk of the lists are neither must-haves nor dealbreakers. That means a big chunk of the lists ARE negotiable. It's just an idea of what you would like, often based on past experience. It's not a strict requirement.

    4) Many people include factors on their list based on past experience, and that's actually a very PRACTICAL way of learning what you want/need in a relationship. Learning from experience & not repeating past mistakes is WISE, not picky.

    5) If I'm a bit defensive about this, it's because I HAVE pity-dated, I HAVE given guys a chance when they were a far cry from these ideals, and I HAVE compromised my needs to keep an open mind. That didn't produce anything positive. No relationships came out of that mindset or approach. Instead I just unintentionally led people on, felt guilty about eventually rejecting them when no feelings formed, and I ended up feeling pretty lonely and hopeless about love. Keeping a clearer idea (although not an actual list - that's just an exercise for the thread) of what I really need & want in a partner meant I went a year without dating, but it paid off. As I mentioned in here already, someone has met my list (and a sensor at that!) , sooooo
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #244
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    very good point...it's just nf nature to dream...and romanticize but...we don't take things so literally...so the list is really just talking...dreaming...thinking out loud.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #245
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I don't understand how you guys DON'T see the nit-pickyness and unrealistic parts...it's kind of baffling to me...prplchknz felt compelled to make an entire thread about it...for people who are supposedly so self-aware, there seems to be a lack of awareness about how others might possibly view this...if I am, indeed, an NF, and so is prplchknz, then we really must be able to take ourselves out of ourselves and see the way NF idealism can look to others...otherwise, I give up and hand in my NF card, seriously...
    Oh no! The two best NFs don't want to be NFs anymore?! Whatever will we do?!


    Nothing wrong with idealism. Whoever says otherwise isn't extremely happy with the relationships he/she has had and is just frustrated they haven't fulfilled their standards.

    Besides, the worst thing that can happen if you are very idealistic is....


    ....*gulp*...

    ....wait for it it....


    ...you stay SINGLE while you wait!!!!!!!:horor:


    Ewww single...even pronouncing that word leaves a bad taste in my mouth... :eww:

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    You're still making a lot of assumptions, i am perfectly calm

    I ask because where you seem to see "nitpickiness" I see people speaking through experience. I am very particular, and is that picky? Yes. But NITpicky? Not a chance, all of deal breakers/must-haves i listed might seem that way to you because maybe they aren't important qualities to you. They are to me. Unrealistic? Certainly not; all the people I've dated/had relationships with "met" this list. i've already said this many many times, but the list comes from my analyzing of my past relationships (the good and the bad). It doesn't dictate my choice in partners, rather my choice in partners dictates this list.

    So i ask again, what here seems nitpicky and unrealistic?
    Maybe I shouldn't have said that they're unrealistic, I find most of them to be unrealistic but perhaps you people don't. With that being said I do find them to be overly critical and finicky. I'm just using the post below as an example, because it's not her first list but SECOND list and she included everything from eyebrow grooming to Tivo subscriptions as her deal breakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I think it interesting that so many of the NF women who have posted lists on this thread have expressed ambivalence and trepidation about doing so.

    The concerns seems to fall into two areas:
    1. That such a list makes it more likely that good matches will be overlooked.
    2. By writing such a list, the list maker will appear shallow or superficial. (Or even worse, IS shallow or superficial.)

    I say a definitive HOGWASH.

    Whether we formally write these lists down or not, we all have them in our head... even if they are not consciously articulated. Furthermore, writing such a list isn't shallow... nor is putting a few quirky items on there like big hands. Using such a list to categorically reject people is shallow.

    Sooooo.... seems like the best thing is to embrace that dating is a sorting process. And this sorting is very healthy. And guys, you can tell a lot about a woman from such a list. Seems like a pretty good sorting tool for you, too.

    Since posting my first list, I've decided that I need to be a lot braver about saying what I'd like in a man and what I don't. Ladies, you have inspired me.

    Don't worry, gentlemen. I won't apply it too strictly. But it will help me remember to kick those shallow assholes to the curb a lot sooner so I have more time "on the market" to find some of the kind, sweet, considerate, good-hearted men that are out there.

    Esoteric Wench's Deal Breakers - List #2 (aka the shallow and really obnoxious list)

    1. Must Haves

    * Ambition. Not a lot of money. Just a desire to do something and do it well.
    * Mindfulness. Yeah. Everything does matter.
    * Self-Actualization. Never quit growing as a person. <-- Boy is this hard to find.
    * Spiritual maturity. Church not required. Ethical and spiritually mature perspectives transcend religious institutions.
    * Kind heart. Especially when the going gets tough. That's when real character comes through. Douchebaggery is most unattractive.
    * Humility. Yes, you are an idiot. But that's OK. I'm an idiot, too.
    * Intensity. I'm a pretty darn intense person at times. If you're a wall-flower, I'm gonna knock you over with my own energy. Quiet intensity is even better. Oh so yummy.
    * Dependable. There's not gonna be room in our relationship for two flakes.
    * Polite comportment. An appreciation for gracious living. This is very hard to find in our current culture.
    * Well-Educated. Formal education not necessary. But you have to be able to keep up with me and even teach me a thing or two.
    * Love of learning. I love learning new things. So should you.
    * Be able to call me on my own crap when necessary. I know it's hard to believe, but even Esoteric Wench needs someone to reign her in every once in a while.
    * Wordie. Or at least not wordie adverse. If you can't give me a run for my money in Scrabble, you need not apply.
    * Creative. Oh this is most attractive.
    * Well-groomed eyebrows. I've just got this thing about that. It drives me nuts to see two llamas taped to a guy's face... or even worse... one very long and big llama.
    * Passion for the Arts (Or at least a willingness to be supportive of me in my passion for the arts.)
    * Baseline proficiency in lovemaking. Come'on.... If you haven't figure this out by my age, then there's no saving you. Ability to be playful and adventurous in bed is a big plus. Also, being unafraid to be sexually assertive... even sometimes aggressive... is a HUGE turn on. (I'm weak in the knees just writing these words.)
    * A penis. Thanks marmalade.sunrise for reminding me of this necessity. You've can have everything else on this list, but you've gotta have the right equipment, too.

    2. Rather Nots

    * Any interest in any spectator sports... You wanna get up off the couch and play yourself? More power to ya. You wanna sit around watching other people play... I don't think so. Certain sports by the way, automatically qualify as deal breakers, including: NASCAR, wrestling, and college football.
    * Smoking. It's a disgusting habit. And, I don't want to breathe your smoke either.
    * Less than 5" taller than me. (I'm 5'6" so you do the math.) Shallow perhaps. But it's a visceral, perhaps biological thing, with me. I just am not attracted to shorter guys. (At least this is the only measure of length or girth I put on this list.)
    * Lack of Healthy Libido. More than twice a week, but under twice a day, seems a good guideline.
    * Long hair. Only 1 in 10 women can keep their long hair looking good. Unless your name is Fabio and you have a personal stylist, your long hair is probably gonna look like crap. Just cut it short and be done with it. If I wanted to date a teenager, I'd volunteer to serve as a chaperon at my local prom.
    * Overly Intrusive Previous Entanglements (e.g., 4 kids from 3 former wives.) I want to build a life with you... not share in the leftovers of someone else's life.
    * Any behavior that falls below the level of "Excellent Oral Hygiene."
    * An Unwillingness to Curtail Excessive Hirsute Tendencies. (See item about eyebrows above.) I know that you've gotta work with what you're born with, but you do have options. Gentleman, body wax is your friend!

    3. Deal Breakers

    * Love of College Football (Yeah, I'm serious.)
    * A Tivo subscription to American Idol or that show with those people on the island. In fact, any intense fascination with that ilk of reality TV programs. They represent all that is soulless and wrong.
    * Arrogance. (See humility above.)
    * Not a Good kisser. This is a definite deal breaker for me. I love kissing... and no, it doesn't have to be leading anywhere. I love just kissing for kissing's sake. You've either got the gift or you don't.
    * Selfishness. It's not all about you.....
    * Dislike of Reading. And if all you read are John Grisham novels, business books au currant, and Sky Mall Magazine, this does NOT count.
    * Close Minded. Ohhh... if you can't see that there is more than one way to skin a cat, then this pussy cat can't be bothered with you.
    * Un-knowledgeable in current affairs. You don't have to have a subscription to the Foreign Affairs, but show some interest in the world around you.
    * Lay About Attitude. Get up off that couch and do something with your life.
    * Overly single-minded pursuit of hedonistic activities. I like to have fun, but there is more to life than partying. Yuck.
    * No Sense of Adventure. aka stick-in-the-mudness is definite no no.
    Quote Originally Posted by onceuponatime View Post
    After reading this thread, I want nothing to do with NF females.

    GROSS!
    Of course this post was only a joke, I know not all NF females are like this, just 99.9% of them.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Oh no! The two best NFs don't want to be NFs anymore?! Whatever will we do?!


    Nothing wrong with idealism. Whoever says otherwise isn't extremely happy with the relationships he/she has had and is just frustrated they haven't fulfilled their standards.

    Besides, the worst thing that can happen if you are very idealistic is....


    ....*gulp*...

    ....wait for it it....


    ...you stay SINGLE while you wait!!!!!!!:horor:


    Ewww single...even pronouncing that word leaves a bad taste in my mouth... :eww:

    So does that mean you actually hate me and prplchknz, or that we're the best NFs because we're really SFPs?

  8. #248
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Some of the lists are a bit painful, although not likely to be really utilized. Like Lady X mentioned about the idealist flights of fancy and things.

    Quote Originally Posted by onceuponatime View Post
    Of course this post was only a joke, I know not all NF females are like this, just 99.9% of them.
    Somehow, this just secures your place on my good side.
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


    .:: DWTWD ::.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    2011 TypeC Exercise Challenge - My Weekly Goals: Cardio 4x. Yoga/Pilates 1x. Pushups 70.

    There is this thing keeping everyone's lungs and lips locked - It is called fear and it's seeing a great renaissance

  9. #249
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onceuponatime View Post
    Maybe I shouldn't have said that they're unrealistic, I find most of them to be unrealistic but perhaps you people don't. With that being said I do find them to be overly critical and finicky. I'm just using the post below as an example, because it's not her first list but SECOND list and she included everything from eyebrow grooming to Tivo subscriptions as her deal breakers.
    Now onceuponatime, you didn't quote the most relevant part of my LIST #2:

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Since posting my first list, I've decided that I need to be a lot braver about saying what I'd like in a man and what I don't. Ladies, you have inspired me.

    Don't worry, gentlemen. I won't apply it too strictly. But it will help me remember to kick those shallow assholes to the curb a lot sooner so I have more time "on the market" to find some of the kind, sweet, considerate, good-hearted men that are out there.

    Esoteric Wench's Deal Breakers - List #2 (aka the shallow and really obnoxious list)
    This list embodies the very definition of frolic.

    Frolic. 1. To behave playfully and uninhibitedly; romp. 2. To engage in merrymaking, joking, or teasing.



    Quote Originally Posted by onceuponatime View Post
    Of course this post was only a joke, I know not all NF females are like this, just 99.9% of them.
    That's pretty funny. Made me smile. There's a little NF in you afterall, onceuponatime.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Now onceuponatime, you didn't quote the most relevant part of my LIST #2:



    This list embodies the very definition of frolic.

    Frolic. 1. To behave playfully and uninhibitedly; romp. 2. To engage in merrymaking, joking, or teasing.

    That's odd I didn't remember deleting anything from the original quote.

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