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  1. #201
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Well ladies, after having read your lists in details, no wonder I'm so popular amongst NF girls, why so many consider I'm a kind of Charming Prince reincarnation or something like that.

    It's almost perplexing, and I'm not even joking.

    This kind of thread makes me blush.

    Of course, I suspect there might be a difference between their "must have" list, and what they really want. Like Freud already noticed, our unconscious side can be somewhat tricky: sometimes we do not behave the way we pretend to be. That's why many NFs eventually fall in love with shallow unsophisticated assholes, despite everything they might have previously written. It also happens, and I'd even dare to say it's fortunate for the specie's perpetuation because most males you encounter IRL are shallow unsophisticated assholes.

    ---

    Anyway, the issue is that I'm often far more picky than most of you are. I mean, it's easy to seduce people, but real love is very rare, especially for NTs. Finding somebody who could truly surprize you is difficult, despite the large choice you might have.

    But who knows?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  2. #202
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I just went over my list in here again, and I can honestly say the ESFP I am dating meets all the must-haves, doesn't have any of the dealbreakers, and fits most of the would-likes & rather-nots except for:

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    1 1/2. Would likes
    Compatible interests/tastes - art, music, food, travel, etc.
    Intellectual, book smarts, analytical side
    ENFJ

    2. Rather Nots
    Sports freak, or generally more physical than cerebral
    We share a lot of interests, enough to make me happy, but he's decidedly less intellectually inclined / bookish than I am, but that's okay. I find that ESFPs bring out my more light-hearted side, and maybe I need that more than a "mind-mate". It might prove more challenging in a good way - I may "grow" more.

    He also has many more physical/athletic interests & hobbies than I do, but not so much that I'd call him a sports freak, and not at the expense of being shallow or not ever introspecting. Of course, the ENFJ thing was a joke...sorta .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #203
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    I just went over my list in here again, and I can honestly say the ESFP I am dating meets all the must-haves, doesn't have any of the dealbreakers, and fits most of the would-likes & rather-nots except for:



    We share a lot of interests, enough to make me happy, but he's decidedly less intellectually inclined / bookish than I am, but that's okay. I find that ESFPs bring out my more light-hearted side, and maybe I need that more than a "mind-mate". It might prove more challenging in a good way - I may "grow" more.

    He also has many more physical/athletic interests & hobbies than I do, but not so much that I'd call him a sports freak, and not at the expense of being shallow or not ever introspecting. Of course, the ENFJ thing was a joke...sorta .
    My ISFP I am dating gets concerned about that and if I would choose someone more intellegent than her as my "mind-mate". I explain that we have different kind of intellegence and we are both able to learn from and teach each other as to the different ways we view the world.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    I just went over my list in here again, and I can honestly say the ESFP I am dating meets all the must-haves, doesn't have any of the dealbreakers, and fits most of the would-likes & rather-nots except for:



    We share a lot of interests, enough to make me happy, but he's decidedly less intellectually inclined / bookish than I am, but that's okay. I find that ESFPs bring out my more light-hearted side, and maybe I need that more than a "mind-mate". It might prove more challenging in a good way - I may "grow" more.

    He also has many more physical/athletic interests & hobbies than I do, but not so much that I'd call him a sports freak, and not at the expense of being shallow or not ever introspecting. Of course, the ENFJ thing was a joke...sorta .
    He sounds nice. The man I'm separated from is a very outward (physically) oriented person, but he wasn't shallow in any way, just not, as you say, very bookish. Though he is intellectually inclined, he doesn't have the same intellectual interests. That didn't bother me that much, and I too, felt he make me grow. I enjoyed his company. I found others to share my love of discussion of books. He would listen, but not know what the heck I was talking about half the time, I think. It didn't bother me that much. Just that he listened was good enough.

  5. #205
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Deal breakers:

    -I cant stand insensitive guys...Im done with rudeness, impatience, and mean attitudes.

    -No more dating people with unresolved emotional baggage.

    -I dont want to play mommy anymore, be responsible with your finances!

    -I get turned off when guys try to touch me too soon, if im not sure about them yet it makes me feel violated. Be a gentleman!

    -Drug dependency is a no no (drugs like cocain, meth, etc.).

    -History of cheating.

  6. #206
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Oh god I forgot the financial thing! I thought it was an unspoken after age twenty that both parties financial situations are none of the other's business, but one person paying for everything is way out of the question, and if the other party is asking to be paid for 24/7, there is a problem >.>
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  7. #207
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
    He sounds nice. The man I'm separated from is a very outward (physically) oriented person, but he wasn't shallow in any way, just not, as you say, very bookish. Though he is intellectually inclined, he doesn't have the same intellectual interests. That didn't bother me that much, and I too, felt he make me grow. I enjoyed his company. I found others to share my love of discussion of books. He would listen, but not know what the heck I was talking about half the time, I think. It didn't bother me that much. Just that he listened was good enough.
    That would be good enough for me also....I don't expect to find someone who shares every interest, but I do need someone to indulge me when I get metaphorical/analytical because it's just how I communicate. In return, I am happy to go along with "experiences" that don't really interest me, just to be supportive & because I am rather easy-going that way.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #208
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    I am intrigued by these lists .. I suppose because i don't have one.

    How much would you actually stick to a list of desires?

    I know you're idealists but are you not being closed minded to an extent to other possibilities?

    What if a man who was not highly educated, on a low income, short and bold showed interest in you, would you dismiss him because he didn't fit your criteria even though he could of potentially treated you like a queen, been fiercely loyal and had a high EQ.

    OrangeAppled .. Loved the poem/song. That's what i would like from a man/relationship.
    In my case, I wouldn't like a really short guy (less than 5'6") but I've been thinking lately that it would be great to be with a true ISTP guy who is a strong sensor and is good at fixing stuff, even if he doesn't have much money and isn't highly educated. I'm highly educated myself, but at this stage of life, would love to just have a loyal, good-hearted, practical, solid guy who loves me. Also, I usually find ISTPs to be pretty hot so good sex would probably be a given.

  9. #209
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I think it interesting that so many of the NF women who have posted lists on this thread have expressed ambivalence and trepidation about doing so.

    The concerns seems to fall into two areas:
    1. That such a list makes it more likely that good matches will be overlooked.
    2. By writing such a list, the list maker will appear shallow or superficial. (Or even worse, IS shallow or superficial.)

    I say a definitive HOGWASH.

    Whether we formally write these lists down or not, we all have them in our head... even if they are not consciously articulated. Furthermore, writing such a list isn't shallow... nor is putting a few quirky items on there like big hands. Using such a list to categorically reject people is shallow.

    Sooooo.... seems like the best thing is to embrace that dating is a sorting process. And this sorting is very healthy. And guys, you can tell a lot about a woman from such a list. Seems like a pretty good sorting tool for you, too.

    Since posting my first list, I've decided that I need to be a lot braver about saying what I'd like in a man and what I don't. Ladies, you have inspired me.

    Don't worry, gentlemen. I won't apply it too strictly. But it will help me remember to kick those shallow assholes to the curb a lot sooner so I have more time "on the market" to find some of the kind, sweet, considerate, good-hearted men that are out there.

    Esoteric Wench's Deal Breakers - List #2 (aka the shallow and really obnoxious list)

    1. Must Haves

    * Ambition. Not a lot of money. Just a desire to do something and do it well.
    * Mindfulness. Yeah. Everything does matter.
    * Self-Actualization. Never quit growing as a person. <-- Boy is this hard to find.
    * Spiritual maturity. Church not required. Ethical and spiritually mature perspectives transcend religious institutions.
    * Kind heart. Especially when the going gets tough. That's when real character comes through. Douchebaggery is most unattractive.
    * Humility. Yes, you are an idiot. But that's OK. I'm an idiot, too.
    * Intensity. I'm a pretty darn intense person at times. If you're a wall-flower, I'm gonna knock you over with my energy. Quiet intensity is even better. Oh so yummy.
    * Dependable. There's not gonna be room in our relationship for two flakes.
    * Polite comportment. An appreciation for gracious living. This is very hard to find in our current culture.
    * Well-Educated. Formal education not necessary. But you have to be able to keep up with me and even teach me a thing or two.
    * Love of learning. I love learning new things. So should you.
    * Be able to call me on my own crap when necessary. I know it's hard to believe, but even Esoteric Wench needs someone to reign her in every once in a while.
    * Wordie. Or at least not wordie adverse. If you can't give me a run for my money in Scrabble, you need not apply.
    * Creative. Oh this is most attractive.
    * Well-groomed eyebrows. I've just got this thing about this. It drives me nuts to see two llamas taped to a guy's face... or even worse... one very long and big llama.
    * Passion for the Arts (Or at least a willingness to be supportive of me in my passion for the arts.)
    * Baseline proficiency in lovemaking. Come'on.... If you haven't figure this out by my age, then there's no saving you. Ability to be playful and adventurous in bed is a big plus. Also, being unafraid to be sexually assertive... even sometimes aggressive... is a HUGE turn on. (I'm weak in the knees just writing these words.)
    * A penis. Thanks marmalade.sunrise for reminding me of this necessity. You've can have everything else on this list, but you've gotta have the right equipment, too.

    2. Rather Nots

    * Any interest in any spectator sports... You wanna get up off the couch and play yourself? More power to ya. You wanna sit around watching other people play... I don't think so. Certain sports, by the way, automatically qualify as deal breakers, including: NASCAR, wrestling, and college football.
    * Smoking. It's a disgusting habit. And, I don't want to breathe your smoke either.
    * Less than 5" taller than me. (I'm 5'6" so you do the math.) Shallow perhaps. But it's a visceral, perhaps biological thing, with me. I just am not attracted to shorter guys. (At least this is the only measure of length or girth I put on this list.)
    * Lack of Healthy Libido. More than twice a week, but under twice a day, seems a good guideline.
    * Long hair. Only 1 in 10 women can keep their long hair looking good. Unless your name is Fabio and you have a personal stylist, your long hair is probably gonna look like crap. Just cut it short and be done with it. If I wanted to date a teenager, I'd volunteer to serve as a chaperon at my local prom.
    * Overly Intrusive Previous Entanglements (e.g., 4 kids from 3 former wives.) I want to build a life with you... not share in the leftovers of someone else's life.
    * Any behavior that falls below the level of "Excellent Oral Hygiene."
    * An Unwillingness to Curtail Excessive Hirsute Tendencies. (See item about eyebrows above.) I know that you've gotta work with what you're born with, but you do have options. Gentleman, body wax is your friend!

    3. Deal Breakers

    * Love of College Football (Yeah, I'm serious.)
    * A Tivo subscription to American Idol or that show with those people on the island. In fact, any intense fascination with that ilk of reality TV programs. They represent all that is soulless and wrong.
    * Arrogance. (See humility above.)
    * Not a Good kisser. This is a definite deal breaker for me. I love kissing... and no, it doesn't have to be leading anywhere. I love just kissing for kissing's sake. You've either got the gift or you don't.
    * Selfishness. It's not all about you.....
    * Dislike of Reading. And if all you read are John Grisham novels, business books au currant, and Sky Mall Magazine, this does NOT count.
    * Close Minded. Ohhh... if you can't see that there is more than one way to skin a cat, then this pussy cat can't be bothered with you.
    * Un-knowledgeable in current affairs. You don't have to have a subscription to the Foreign Affairs, but show some interest in the world around you.
    * Lay About Attitude. Get up off that couch and do something with your life.
    * Overly single-minded pursuit of hedonistic activities. I like to have fun, but there is more to life than partying. Yuck.
    * No Sense of Adventure. aka stick-in-the-mudness is definite no no.
    Last edited by Esoteric Wench; 07-10-2010 at 04:49 PM.

  10. #210
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I just went over my list in here again, and I can honestly say the ESFP I am dating meets all the must-haves, doesn't have any of the dealbreakers, and fits most of the would-likes & rather-nots except for: [...]

    We share a lot of interests, enough to make me happy, but he's decidedly less intellectually inclined / bookish than I am, but that's okay. I find that ESFPs bring out my more light-hearted side, and maybe I need that more than a "mind-mate". It might prove more challenging in a good way - I may "grow" more.
    Mm-hm. I know what you mean. That's what I like about SPs in general. They have a different sort of intelligence that I can truly appreciate and even learn from. ESFPs in particular bring a certain warmth and energy into my life that's so refreshing since I tend to be on the serious side. I come out of my shell when I'm around them more than I would on my own, and I quite like that. But overall, I'd rather have them as friends. I've had both the mind connection and the light-hearted fun in a relationship with someone before, so as picky as it sounds I don't want to settle for just one when I know I can have, and have had, both qualities in a partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I think it interesting that so many of the NF women who have posted lists on this thread have expressed ambivalence and trepidation about doing so.

    The concerns seems to fall into two areas:
    1. That such a list makes it more likely that good matches will be overlooked.
    2. By writing such a list, the list maker will appear shallow or superficial. (Or even worse, IS shallow or superficial.)

    I say a definitive HOGWASH.

    Whether we formally write these lists down or not, we all have them in our head... even if they are not consciously articulated. Furthermore, writing such a list isn't shallow... nor is putting a few quirky items on there like big hands. Using such a list to categorically reject people is shallow.

    Sooooo.... seems like the best thing is to embrace that dating is a sorting process. And this sorting is very healthy. And guys, you can tell a lot about a woman from such a list. Seems like a pretty good sorting tool for you, too.
    Yes, I agree.

    I think one of the main reasons women, and men, end up in relationships that are not very fulfilling and unsatisfying is because we flirt with the idea of what we want in a partner (usually shallow in nature and consists of listing physical preferences), but no one really openly explores what they need in a partner. That's important. Granted, I don't need anyone, and I'm quite happily self-sufficient, but if I'm going to be in a relationship I'd want a partner who not only compliments me and my good qualities but also is strong in areas where I am weak and vice versa. There's maturity in realizing where you need to improve and finding someone who has those characteristics and challenge you/help you grow to become a more ideal you.


    I'd also like to put these on my list:

    Esoteric Wench's Deal Breakers - List #2 (aka the shallow and really obnoxious list)

    1. Must Haves

    * Well-Educated. Formal education not necessary. But you have to be able to keep up with me and even teach me a thing or two.
    * Love of learning. I love learning new things. So should you.
    * Be able to call me on my own crap when necessary. I know it's hard to believe, but even Esoteric Wench needs someone to reign her in every once in a while.
    * Wordie. Or at least not wordie adverse. If you can't give me a run for my money in Scrabble, you need not apply.
    * A penis. Thanks marmalade.sunrise for reminding me of this necessity. You've can have everything else on this list, but you've gotta have the right equipment, too.

    2. Rather Nots

    * Overly Intrusive Previous Entanglements (e.g., 4 kids from 3 former wives.) I want to build a life with you... not share in the leftovers of someone else's life.
    * Any behavior that falls below the level of "Excellent Oral Hygiene."

    3. Deal Breakers

    * Dislike of Reading. And if all you read are John Grisham novels, business books au currant, and Sky Mall Magazine, this does NOT count.
    Having a substantial amount of debt, particularly credit card debt (school debt is totally understandable and exempt here) and not including me in any of the major decision-making, esp the kind that could alter our relationship or life significantly, are deal breakers as well.

    Esoteric Wench, your list is hilarious! Loved it.

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