User Tag List

First 234

Results 31 to 40 of 40

  1. #31
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I tried- in the last paragraph of the op- to explain that the neighbor incident wasn't really going to be a problem. Isolated incidents aren't a problem for me either. It just seemed like a good example of "my annoyance disappears once I even begin to consider the other side". The real problem is when similar events happen in important relationships and they slowly accumulate: the trivial 'no big deals' building up to the Big Deal. The neighbor story seemed like a good vehicle to get opinions from other types about how they react to getting annoyed- but the actual incident per se isn't a big deal to me.

    And by 'cutting it off at the source', I mean I'm looking to figure out how to voice my annoyances before they get to the overwhelming point where I need to doorslam someone. I mean- I hear you, about not expecting other people to change. At the same time, though, I'd really like to give them a choice. I've always ended up accepting someone's behavior as the 'way they are', and- not getting offended- but also not giving them much credit for being trustworthy or particularly caring. It can be a shitty stick to be on the other end of: having someone not tell me what I was doing to offend them, but sporadically being some kind of victim because of the 'way I am'.

    I'm not saying I want to learn how to start complaining left and right whenever someone annoys me- I'm just saying I'd like to find a balance where I can communicate what annoys me before it builds up.
    Makes complete sense to me.

    For myself, I can struggle sometimes with knowing when I should voice a concern and when to let something go or give something time. In the end if it matters enough and is bothering me too much, I can't NOT voice it, and I need to address my concern with the other person, but I'm sure I could stand to voice sooner. I just hate being premature about things, esp. when I know myself well enough to know that sometimes if I give it some time then the frustration will pass or I might change my perception on all of it.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  2. #32
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I just hate being premature about things, esp. when I know myself well enough to know that sometimes if I give it some time then the frustration will pass or I might change my perception on all of it.
    That's why I'm usually glad when I restrain myself in the heat of the anger. I hate being retrospectively embarrassed.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #33
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,686

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    That's why I'm usually glad when I restrain myself in the heat of the anger. I hate being retrospectively embarrassed.
    Yeah, for the most part I'll take my 'too-controlled' problem over having too little control any day of the week. I really, really hate that retrospective embarrassment.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  4. #34
    Senior Member Quiet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Something interesting happened tonight with a neighbor, and it seems like a really good example of those microcosm moments that build up to a doorslam: I’m interested in hearing how other types would have dealt with it.

    I have new neighbors that moved in this past week directly in back of me. Earlier this afternoon, their kids were throwing rocks at the back of my house and broke the glass in the patio door. I don’t remember what they were aiming for- they weren’t trying to break glass, but they did. I called the police instead of going to their house and talking to the parents directly because I wanted to intimidate the kids into not doing it again. About an hour later, the parents came over- with the kids- apologized profusely, made the kids admit what they’d done and apologize themselves, and assured me they would take care of the broken panes. They fully owned up to how unacceptable it is and overall gave me a solid impression that they are respectful people who are genuinely embarrassed. We exchanged phone numbers and planned to get in touch about how to replace the door.

    All of that^ went down very respectfully. My issue is with what happened next. I was washing my face, getting ready for bed when the grandfather knocked on the door- around 9 pm (the neighbors are grandparents, the kids were their grandchildren). I had to dry up and get somewhat re-dressed to answer the door, which took a couple of minutes. They were no longer at the door by the time I got there, so I walked into the front yard to see if I could catch whoever it was. I noticed the gate to my backyard was open.

    My first reaction was to feel really angry. My first thought: if someone doesn’t answer the door- especially at 9 pm- then whatever needed to be checked out in that person’s backyard should wait until the next day. The shades I have covering my windows are translucent, the only way to see inside the house at night is to be standing up close to the window. And even so- I’ve got an 8 ft high wooden fence around my backyard- so it seems like I shouldn’t have to worry about someone seeing in my house. If I am home alone, I won’t think twice about walking around the house in my underwear sometimes. I am a really private person, the thought of someone taking the liberty of going in my backyard without my permission disturbs me.

    I walked around into the backyard to find the neighbor measuring the dimensions on the door (standing up close to the window of my living room with the translucent shades). His grandson was with him, probably to hold the flashlight for him. In short: if I hadn’t heard him knock on the door, it’s entirely possible they both might have caught me dancing around my living room in my underwear- scratching my butt, picking my nose, or any other number of things people might do while they don’t have to worry about being seen.

    Here’s the integral INFJ turning point: once I saw how frazzled he was, my anger immediately faded. This is a prime example of a situation where I go- from sensing something is clearly ‘off’, feeling offended and getting angry about it- straight into empathizing with the other side, thinking “it’s no big deal” and deciding not to make an issue out of it. I could see that getting the door replaced as soon as possible was weighing heavily on him, and I wasn’t willing to point out to him how I was more non-plussed about the privacy invasion than I was about the broken door. It truly, instantly felt like ‘no big deal’: no harm, no foul. I decided I’d wait and say something if it ever happened again. I didn’t want him to feel like his efforts to amend the situation respectfully by fixing the door as quickly as possible went unappreciated.

    I realize, to some extent, my knee-jerk reaction to contain my anger and empathize is based on the wish that others would stop and think about both sides before exploding in anger at me for something I’ve done. But the ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’ approach to getting along with people falls short sometimes in the sense that it can resemble ‘my way is the best way’. I think maybe INFJs have a more averse reaction to having someone snap at them in anger, I think we feel the weight of the other person’s anger/injured feelings more than most types. Sometimes I even think we sense more anger in that other person than is actually there (because it takes a LOT of anger for us to lash out in that same way).

    Anyway, I’m trying to break out of ‘my way is the best way’. I’m wondering how that same event would go down for other types. How would you have reacted in that situation: both internally (thought process) and externally (how would you actually have behaved)?


    **I feel compelled to point out that- while I’m using this incident with my neighbor as an example- I really don’t think I’ll have a problem telling this specific person not to wander into my backyard without my knowing if it happens again. I’m trying to get at that underlying shift which tends to happen in INFJs- from intense annoyance to it being ‘no big deal’- and causes problems in friendships and/or relationships when it begins to accumulate. I want to see what that ‘annoyed/offended’ process looks like in other types.
    Awe, I'd definitely have reacted the same way. As far as the end of the post goes about finding people in my backyard at that hour (or any hour infact), my first thought would likely be; "wth, why are you in my yard? You need to be in your own yard. This is my yard, do you not know that you don't go into other people's yards and, ... why are you in my yard, this is just very wierd.. .. .." (Imagine how Jerry Seinfeld would react). There ya go, that would be me, lol.

    I think I have something for you here with this one. A simple phrase that I saw in a very amazing counselor's office once:

    "Be curious, not furious."

    I still fail at it, (not that I would say that I become furious), but it takes off the edge of being so innicially critical of what I see before me before the rest of the information becomes available for me. Then I don't need to feel so overwealmed with the inner shifts that take place within me so instantly, leaving me feeling guilty and like a bad person.


    So, now I try and see some form of sarcastic humor in a given situation such as this, and it does help a bit. (I've been practicing this one for nearly 2 years now, lol).

    Good luck
    "What's Taters, Precious?" --- Gollum.

    "Bring your pretty face, to my axe". --- Gimly.

  5. #35
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,625

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    And by 'cutting it off at the source', I mean I'm looking to figure out how to voice my annoyances before they get to the overwhelming point where I need to doorslam someone. I mean- I hear you, about not expecting other people to change. At the same time, though, I'd really like to give them a choice. I've always ended up accepting someone's behavior as the 'way they are', and- not getting offended- but also not giving them much credit for being trustworthy or particularly caring. It can be a shitty stick to be on the other end of: having someone not tell me what I was doing to offend them, but sporadically being some kind of victim because of the 'way I am'.

    I'm not saying I want to learn how to start complaining left and right whenever someone annoys me- I'm just saying I'd like to find a balance where I can communicate what annoys me before it builds up.
    Z Buck - this is probably one of the most beautiful things I have read in a long, long time. I actually do not possess the words...or even the 'completed thoughts' to describe/explain why I am so moved. All I can say right now is how wonderful I think this is. I stand in awe of you.

    If I noticed the kids were throwing rocks in the direction of my house/window prior to breaking a window...I would have run out the back and said (loudly) with some 'satire' in my voice..."Hey, whoa whoa young gentleman. Now are you two trying to break my window? Because if you do...you will be mowing my lawn, cleaning my toilets, washing my car...for years to pay for them and I know you don't want to have to do that! You should see my toilets! Now lets not throw rocks."

    If the windows were already broken...I would have marched over to their house and said firmly "Umm...your two boys just broke my windows and I'm not real thrilled about that. I understand they are boys and they are in a new environment but I need my windows and I need to get this situation resovled as soon as possible."

    If they were jerks to me I would then call the cops.

    If someone knocked on my door at 9pm I probably wouldn't answer and just continue getting ready for bed (I would put on a robe though).

    If I heard people in my back yard I would investigate...and it would freak me out.

    When I saw it was the neighbors:

    Had I called the cops I wouldn't even question why they were there so late.

    Had I not called the cops like in my version..."I'd say something like...oh hey...thanks for wanting to take care of this as soon as possible. Alright, I'll leave you to your work." And go back into the house.

  6. #36
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Whole Story
    Actually...I can really relate to your story.

    I think the only difference being is that I would still simultaneously be very annoyed but that would be pushed to the back burner once I realize what the context/motivation/full picture is and continued. Once my rancor has been piqued, it rarely gets extinguished completely in one shot unless I address the root of the issue. And in many situations like your OP, there is no "one target" to address.

    Here's my similar story (bear with me but maybe it'll be a good ENFP foil to your story)

    I remember once having just come back from a hellish 6 hour drive from NJ after 2 days of a regional conference. Overall, I was extremely tired and out of sorts.

    It didn't help that drivers on the NJ turnpike are crazy @#$@#$#s! And a couple big rig truckers almost killed me by tailgating me (I wasn't even in the very left hand lane, they were RIGHT on my bumper) on the drive there and the drive back. I was shocked at how dangerous drivers on the turnpike were.

    I was SO frazzled by the time I got home. Then I made the mistake of answering the phone when a friend (who DOES NOT drive) called and I vented to her about what had just happened, she had the nerve to tell me "well, the truck drivers were just in a hurry because they have to make a deadline to get paid, you have a similar job so you should understand".

    I was SO pissed off at her patronizing attitude and how she casually dismissed a very distressing episode when she literally had and still has no idea of what she's talking about. Since again, she does not even have a learners permit and has never even been behind the wheel of a moving vehicle, let alone understand what driving in traffic with aggro drivers is, let alone understand how it feels be in a Ford Taurus with an 18 wheeler about to rear end you at 65+ miles an hour.

    I was SO PISSED I could barely speak so I got off the phone with her quickly but still very politely.

    By that point, my mind set was SUPER frazzled and I was NOT in a good mood.

    When I finally thought I had gotten 10 minutes to myself and was trying to vegetate away the stress in front of the TV, the door bell started ringing. I ignored it.

    It kept ringing.

    And ringing.

    And ringing.

    I swear to god, someone rang the doorbell in quick succession, non stop for almost a full minute before I was SO UNBELIEVABLY PISSED OFF I ran to the door to 1) find out who it was and 2) tell the person off.

    So I swung open the door with a might jerk annnnnnnd -

    Before me was a little girl, wedged halfway between the storm door and my front door.

    She stuck a catalogue in front of me and said, "Hi, I'm selling candy for my school fundraiser."






    She obviously didn't mean to be a nuisance. And she didn't know I was already in a Bad Mood. I was still frazzled and annoyed as hell but I flipped a switch and just started talking to the girl "normally". I tried to end the convo by asking for a brochure but that was her only one. So I ended up chatting with her and bought some stuff from that stupid brochure!!! ::steam:

    Actually, I even had to find the whole scenario secretly hilarious inside. But still, infuriating. But, my bad mood was on the backburner as I concentrated on talking to the little girl.

    It turns out my ex-gf who I lived with told the girl she wasn't going to buy anything but that I DEFINITELY WOULD and that the little girl should look out specifically for my Ford Taurus parked in front of the house because I'd be coming back on Friday. OOOOOOOOH, my ex, You. Are. So. Very. Funny. The little girl (and her family) was just very um...not aware of boundaries. Her mom dropped her off at my house after 9pm one night unannounced to deliver the candies and collect payment. And apparently my ex discovered she had just walked into our house and when she saw my ex (who is black) she asked, "Do you work here?" HA HA HA HA...bah, hilarity all around. The little girl used to know the couple who lived there before us so she felt super familiar with the house, I guess.

    So, anywhoo~

    Even in anger or extreme annoyance I can flip a switch and put that aside once I see things from others' POV and have sympathy/empathy for it or them. I may still be extremely annoyed, but in cases like the OP I won't take it out on the other person if they are not truly the cause of my annoyance. Or there were good intentions, etc. involved. Later, I will address issues if necessary (i.e. still a problem or want to address how XYZ was inappropriate, bothered me, etc)
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  7. #37
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,686

    Default

    Thanks to everyone for the input! And lol @ Starry and Cze’s response.


    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Really, it's remarkable how polite and cooperative they were, considering you called the cops on them.
    I clearly left out some important connecting details if someone is seriously suggesting it was noble of the neighbors to be so civil after I called the cops simply because their grandkids were breaking my windows. I don’t know if people are reading the op and assuming I’m talking about a group of elementary school age children playing an overzealous game of hopscotch or something- but it’s not the case. I’ve fixed the op. It’s even longer and more painfully boring, but it’s fixed.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  8. #38
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Middle school kids intentionally throwing big rocks at your house does kind of merit some cops, IMO. If they are that old and doing that stuff, they need the fear of God put into them.

    Also, if they ended up not paying for it and you had to have your homeowner's insurance pay it or if the kids keep acting stupid like that, it doesn't hurt to have a police report on file in order to establish a paper trail.

    I would have had a similar reaction upon seeing the harried grandfather and I would be civil, but not nicey-nice in front of the kids. It might undermine the lesson being taught.

    As far as neighbors go, mine are nice enough and I will talk to them if we run into each other or something's going on, but when I'm at home, I mostly want to be left alone. It feels invasive to have to interact with people just because I walked out my door.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    143

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post

    **edit: OKAY. Things to know before you get critical of me for calling the police. The op was already too long-winded so I didn’t put these details in, but the thread is almost getting derailed by their omission. (1) When I say ‘kids throwing rocks at my house’, I mean junior highschool age kids, laughing- in broad daylight- throwing large rocks (2” diameter) directly at the back of my house from their backyard. (2) When I say they broke 2 panes on my patio door: it’s a sliding glass door, both 36X78” panes are shattered from top to bottom. And it’s old- so it isn’t a matter of replacing the panes- the entire door and frame are going to have to be removed and a new one put in: EXPENSIVE. I’m just glad I happened to be home at 3 pm, because I otherwise would have assumed someone tried to break in and would have ended up paying for it myself. (3) While some of my neighbors are nice, respectful people- there are enough questionable people in the area to make me wary. In the past 12 months alone: the entirety of my exposed wood fence has been tagged with gang graffiti twice and I’ve had a windshield wiper (the entire metal arm) ripped off of my car while it was parked in my driveway. There are enough kids living in my area getting their shits n giggles out of destroying property that it wasn’t unreasonable for me to assume that’s what I was dealing with- and I wanted them (the kids) to know that I won't hesitate to call the cops when they destroy my property.

    For the record: I have a 16 year old son. If someone were to find him behaving like those kids when he was their age, I wouldn’t have a problem with the cops being called. That door will likely cost a thousand dollars or more to completely replace; they’ve got to learn it’s absolutely not acceptable to destroy someone else’s property like that for impulsive shits n giggles. If I had known the grandparents were so nice and respectful, *maybe* I would have called them first; but judging from the kids’ behaviors, I wouldn’t have guessed that’s what I’d find.

    OK, in typical INFJ fashion - I will say, IN THE LIGHT OF NEW INFORMATION, yea, you were ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to call the cops. Like Cafe said, they needed the 'fear of God' to be instilled in them, lol. Good to send that message abroad: Don't mess with me and I will not mess with you.

  10. #40
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    It's funny, to my Fe- finding what is "Right", looking for One Truth- is what seems "little picture" to me. It isn't a matter of adhering to social norms; it's a matter of recognizing there is no single Right, no single One Truth- and trying to discern if there's some reason why my subjective truths should matter more than my neighbor's subjective truths. The one single underlying truth is that there is never one single underlying truth.

    edit: I realize this^ is because the Fe is intermingled with Ni.
    First of all, let me say, Z Buck McFate, that I think you have some of the most interesting posts on this forum.

    Secondly, I unintentionally did not subscribe to this thread so that means, I'm catching up after a long hiatus.

    Thirdly, I still struggle with understanding the difference between Fe and Fi. But if we put that aside a minute, I think you articulated very well one of the central philophical questions here: One truth versus subjective truths. I don't necessarily have an answer here. I just wanted to validate that you are asking great questions. If either one of us figure out the secret to life, let's promise to PM each other.

Similar Threads

  1. The Powerlessness of Positive Thinking
    By 93JC in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-20-2014, 09:57 PM
  2. The Poison of Positive Thinking
    By ygolo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 12-11-2013, 05:49 PM
  3. [INFJ] When INFJs Dismiss Outside Input Because of the Source
    By Esoteric Wench in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 03-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  4. Another in the stream of INFJs
    By Kite in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-04-2008, 04:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO